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Old 05-08-2008, 12:32 PM   #106
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A very good and amusing question.
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:33 PM   #107
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I was just thinking that surely defendents in a lawsuit have to use their real names, don't they?
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:36 PM   #108
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Well, at least the name they go by.
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:36 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by ePossum View Post
I think that in the entire debacle, Rowlings is the player least motivated by financial gain.

Warner Brothers & RDR Books are clearly in it for the money - and I reckon the same goes for Vander Ark. If Vander Ark's motive truly were just adoration of HP & co, he would have sought permission from Rowling before embarking on the project of creating a commercially available lexicon - and the whole scenario would never have arisen. He might be a naive fool, but he is, without doubt, also in it for the money.

On the otherhand, Rowlings investment in the whole thing appears to be predominantly a personal (not financial) desire to maintain control of her creation.

Rowlings has more money (I persume) than anyone posting to this list, and she is certainly backward in her attitudes to e-publishing - but I don't believe she deserves to have invective hurled at her, just because she wants to have some control over a fictional world that she's worked hard to create.
I think ePossum has perfectly summed up the situation: Warner Bros own the trademark to the characters and names in the books, so they sue the HP lexicon's publisher for all the money they can get (and also to make discourage other people to publish derivative work without permission). If Vander Ark had tried to get permission beforehand, maybe he would have got it, maybe not, but at least he would have avoided this suit. WB are in it for the money, period. Fans who want to publish commercially a lexicon of their favorite books are not in the wrong per se, but they have to go through the legal loops: seek permission, deal with the rights owners for a percentage of the royalties, etc. If all this goes well, then they can publish their "approved by the author" lexicon and make money for everybody involved.

Another thing: right now, J. K. Rowlings must be in a very, very uncomfortable situation. A lot of fans are unhappy with her being on the side of WB in the suit, but really, she has no choice. Since she sold the rights to her creations to WB as part of the movie adaptation deals, she doesn't control her work anymore!

So, this is the problem I see myself with her claims about "controlling" her work and not wanting to be robbed now by the lexicon publishers. Vander Ark is not the only naive fool, here.
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:15 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by radleyp View Post
The publisher indemnified Vander Ark (something which is indeed unusual) because, we must conclude, it was certain it would prevail in any infringement litigation such as this one. Moreover, the publisher was under no obligation to provide Rowling and Warner's with an advance copy - such a demand seems to me a warning that they would sue if the book were published. This is the now familiar fight over publications on books created by living authors but not "authorized" by them! I am not sure who looks better in the matter. It will be interesting to see where the court comes out.
If they were so certain that there was no infringement, why did they stall in providing the copy? Not to mention flat-out lying about why they were not providing the copy; if they were on such firm ground, not just say, "No, we don't have to provide a copy, so there" instead of whining about the dead brother-in-law? And certainly a copyright holder has the right to examine a possibly infringing work. My understanding is that in past cases of similar Potter companions, where an infringement occurred, the publisher and author were given the opportunity to make corrections and rewrites prior to publication.

My point is that the whole thing could very likely have been worked out without a trial--and the book been published in some form--had the publisher cooperated.

And as a friend continually points out to me: the sole reason for businesses to exist is to make money. Of course RDR and WB are out to make money. They are businesses.

Last edited by MaggieScratch; 05-08-2008 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:43 PM   #111
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I don't know if they have the right but it certainly makes more sense for both parties to be cooperative and negotiate with each other before the book goes to print. It was really in the publisher's best interest to give them a copy to look over. Maybe he could've edited it in a way to forestall a lawsuit or come to some sort of agreement. It's more expensive for everyone involved this way.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:49 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I don't know if they have the right but it certainly makes more sense for both parties to be cooperative and negotiate with each other before the book goes to print. It was really in the publisher's best interest to give them a copy to look over. Maybe he could've edited it in a way to forestall a lawsuit or come to some sort of agreement. It's more expensive for everyone involved this way.
I do not know in detail how the law works in the US but can you not stop the publication by getting an injunction to stop it until you have resolved if it is copyright infringement or some other problem? So it seems kind of a lottery to show the book beforehand because even if you are sure that it is not infringement you cannot know for sure what a judge would do.
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:00 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
I do not know in detail how the law works in the US but can you not stop the publication by getting an injunction to stop it until you have resolved if it is copyright infringement or some other problem?
That's exactly what they have done. Click the link posted in the first thread in the post and you'll get a "diary" of exactly what's happened so far.
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:40 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Is that really this guy's real name - "Vander Ark"?
That's his surname. His first name is "Steve" (or more probably, "Stephen"). (We aren't descending to making fun of the names of the people involved in the case, are we?)

I suppose I could wade through the trial transcripts, but I'm still not seeing where this "90%" duplicate text figure is coming from, based on my perusal of the online version of the Lexicon.

I think what kicked off the business was the publisher's plan to use Rowling's comments about the website version of this content (which she praised highly) as a jacket endorsement for the book. That was apparently settled out of court. And I can see where Rowling can justifiably complain that her comments about a free fan site should not be construed as being endorsements of a commercial printing of the same content. There were some other issues also settled out of court, leaving this claim about content, which is apparently not being regarded as open-and-shut for either side.

Those who want an example of entries might look here: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/dumbledore.html (Dumbledore's entry) or here: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/bestiary/thestrals.html (Thestrals). Yes, I see some quotes-- and by APA standards, they aren't attributed correctly, as they have no page number, only the book number, but I don't know how they would have appeared in the print version. Most of the content in the entries seems to be original in the sense of being a summary, covered under critical review use. I would think if there were serious merit to a claim of copyright infringement, the site would have been issued a DMCA notice, but maybe that happened and I missed it.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:03 AM   #115
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And I can see where Rowling can justifiably complain that her comments about a free fan site should not be construed as being endorsements of a commercial printing of the same content.
As "blind" justice, it is either copyright infringement or it isn't. If the medium is web or paper shouldn't make any difference, nor if profit is involved or isn't. Not?
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:22 AM   #116
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That's his surname. His first name is "Steve" (or more probably, "Stephen"). (We aren't descending to making fun of the names of the people involved in the case, are we?)
No, certainly not. It just sounded like a "made up" name and I was wondering if it was some sort of "online" name.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:46 AM   #117
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Trail Transcript Day 1
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/docs/jkrtrialday2.txt
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/docs/jkrtrialday3.txt

Not to personally attack Mr. Vander Ark, but he apparently has made public statements that he doesn't agree that J.K. Rowling has the final say in what happens with her characters.

On the second transciprt, I believe this is page 332, he said of RDR in an email:
Quote:
I am more than ready to disassociate myself with RDR. They have lied to me, misled me, taken advantage of me and, in the end, ruined my good standing with fans and with Rowling.
He is unemployed but considers himself a writer. He is writing more books for a different publisher, because they would pay him an advance (333, line 14).

(356, line 2) he admits that he didn't believe the book would be permissible by copyright law. And then he admits not to being a lawyer, not consulting a lawyer about it being permissible. RDR told him (359, line 4) that it was.

(372, line 4) he states that the scope of the book is not an exhaustive scholarly reference.

AND NOW HERE'S THE GOOD PART transcript 3, page 600, line 9:
Quote:
Q. You wrote, In fact, a line-by-line review of the Lexicon reveals that out of the 2,437 entries, 2,034 entries simply lift information straight out of the Harry Potter books. Do you see that?
A. I do.
Q. What was the basis of your statement?
A. I counted.
And I've pretty much given up on reading testimony. But honestly now ... it looks like Steve himself didn't think it was a good idea. So how did we get into this position?
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:22 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by evil_bunny View Post
He is unemployed but considers himself a writer.
This held true for Rowling also pre-potter 1, she had to life (and write) on welfare.

Quote:
So how did we get into this position?
I guess this is a game between the big publishers, and Vander Ark and Rowling mere pawns in this.
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:04 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IreneDelse View Post
I think ePossum has perfectly summed up the situation: Warner Bros own the trademark to the characters and names in the books, so they sue the HP lexicon's publisher for all the money they can get (and also to make discourage other people to publish derivative work without permission). If Vander Ark had tried to get permission beforehand, maybe he would have got it, maybe not, but at least he would have avoided this suit. WB are in it for the money, period. Fans who want to publish commercially a lexicon of their favorite books are not in the wrong per se, but they have to go through the legal loops: seek permission, deal with the rights owners for a percentage of the royalties, etc. If all this goes well, then they can publish their "approved by the author" lexicon and make money for everybody involved.

Another thing: right now, J. K. Rowlings must be in a very, very uncomfortable situation. A lot of fans are unhappy with her being on the side of WB in the suit, but really, she has no choice. Since she sold the rights to her creations to WB as part of the movie adaptation deals, she doesn't control her work anymore!

So, this is the problem I see myself with her claims about "controlling" her work and not wanting to be robbed now by the lexicon publishers. Vander Ark is not the only naive fool, here.
Isn't the whole point of the case about whether or not such a thing was/is necessary? If it was, then the book infringes copyright as defined in the US, if not it doesn't.
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:00 AM   #120
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Speaking as a fan of Rowling and the Harry Potter universe, I think she has every right to fight this, especially since she has made known for at least two years that she was planning on writing her own encyclopedia. In her shoes I would the exact same thing. Here's a guy that writes a book based completely on someone else's writing, without adding any of his own creative content, and then expects to be able to publish it without so much as asking for the author's approval. It doesn't matter that Rowling used the site on occasion; the site was well done and had her stamp of approval.

All I see here is the Lexicon author's greed. He obviously has no creative talent on his own so he strives to earn a buck of Rowling's.

These are her invented characters, names, and places. Had he actually gotten permission to write the book, and gone through the proper channels he may have gotten an endorsement.

Maybe if Mr. Cards books were as popular as hers he would be in the same position to have to defend his work!
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