French culture minister: "Allowing publishers to fix prices is best"

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by stonetools

We can also have Amazon adhere to fair labor standards in its sweatshop style warehouses. This will cut into Amazon's famed price advantage, of course.
Don't know if much more can be done, but at least we can do this.

Of course Amazon does adhere to fair labor standards in their sweatshops. They also pay significantly more than equivalent jobs in the regions where they are located. (Which are not, however, high wage areas.)

The fact that occasional 20-something journalists discover that working in a warehouse is "hard" compared to working in an office should not be surprising, however.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by stonetools

According to Ninjalawyer, the market is a magic wand that solves all problems and the Internet is a god whose commands must be obeyed.

I pretty much stop reading your posts if the first sentence contains a logical fallacy (ad hominem in this case). I'm sure the rest of your post was very convincing, but now I'll never know.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Of course Amazon does adhere to fair labor standards in their sweatshops. They also pay significantly more than equivalent jobs in the regions where they are located. (Which are not, however, high wage areas.)

The fact that occasional 20-something journalists discover that working in a warehouse is "hard" compared to working in an office should not be surprising, however.

This sounds pretty bad:

Over the past two months, The Morning Call interviewed 20 current and former warehouse workers who showed pay stubs, tax forms or other proof of employment. They offered a behind-the-scenes glimpse of what it's like to work in the Amazon warehouse, where temperatures soar on hot summer days, production rates are difficult to achieve and the permanent jobs sought by many temporary workers hired by an outside agency are tough to get.

Only one of the employees interviewed described it as a good place to work.

Workers said they were forced to endure brutal heat inside the sprawling warehouse and were pushed to work at a pace many could not sustain. Employees were frequently reprimanded regarding their productivity and threatened with termination, workers said. The consequences of not meeting work expectations were regularly on display, as employees lost their jobs and got escorted out of the warehouse. Such sights encouraged some workers to conceal pain and push through injury lest they get fired as well, workers said.

During summer heat waves, Amazon arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside, ready to treat any workers who dehydrated or suffered other forms of heat stress. Those who couldn't quickly cool off and return to work were sent home or taken out in stretchers and wheelchairs and transported to area hospitals. And new applicants were ready to begin work at any time.

LINK



The working conditions described there go beyond " uncomfortable" and even "hard" to "dangerous." We can make Amazon do better.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

I pretty much stop reading your posts if the first sentence contains a logical fallacy (ad hominem in this case). I'm sure the rest of your post was very convincing, but now I'll never know.

FWIW, I criticized your arguments, not you. I oppose ad hominems. Sorry if you felt you were personally assaulted.

[JD Gumby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

There is some stuff that can't be shipped outside the US - most electronic items, for example - but a great many items can be. I've bought things like DVDs that haven't been available in the UK at the time.

There should be no trouble shipping electronic items from the USA to Canada. My current motherboard, graphics card, RAM, and SATA HD were all shipped up here to Canada from NewEgg's warehouse in New Jersey (at damned nice shipping prices! gotta wonder how Purolator makes enough profit). If NewEgg can do it, Amazon should have no problems.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JD Gumby

There should be no trouble shipping electronic items from the USA to Canada. My current motherboard, graphics card, RAM, and SATA HD were all shipped up here to Canada from NewEgg's warehouse in New Jersey (at damned nice shipping prices! gotta wonder how Purolator makes enough profit). If NewEgg can do it, Amazon should have no problems.

Depends on what you mean by electronics. With certain items companies manufacture different models for different markets and authorized dealers must agree not to ship outside their designated sales areas.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Depends on what you mean by electronics. With certain items companies manufacture different models for different markets and authorized dealers must agree not to ship outside their designated sales areas.

Yes, that's what I had in mind. Things like TVs.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by stonetools

FWIW, I criticized your arguments, not you. I oppose ad hominems. Sorry if you felt you were personally assaulted.

No need to apologize at all. Really though, it's I that should apologize to you. In my haste I said "ad hominem" when I really meant "straw man". Sorry if I mislabelled the logical fallacy you used.

Originally Posted by stonetools

This sounds pretty bad:

LINK

The working conditions described there go beyond " uncomfortable" and even "hard" to "dangerous." We can make Amazon do better.

Ya, there should be laws around working conditions! Oh, there are...well there needs to be (more) laws on this! I can't help but feel you bringing up Amazon's warehouse conditions is a little beside the point and off topic (i.e. comments by the French Minister). It's almost as if you have some sort of axe to grind against Amazon and can barely restrain yourself from posting even the most tenuously relevant anti-Amazon material...

I doubt you'll find many people that are pro poor working conditions, but it doesn't seem terribly related to the topic.

[CommonReader]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Of course Amazon does adhere to fair labor standards in their sweatshops. They also pay significantly more than equivalent jobs in the regions where they are located. (Which are not, however, high wage areas.)

There was a big stink in Germany when Amazon was found to abuse government programs designed to bring unemployed people back into work for obtaining cheap seasonal labour. Not illegal but certainly no business practice I am keen to support (even though we do shop at Amazon).

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

No need to apologize at all. Really though, it's I that should apologize to you. In my haste I said "ad hominem" when I really meant "straw man". Sorry if I mislabelled the logical fallacy you used.




Ya, there should be laws around working conditions! Oh, there are...well there needs to be (more) laws on this! I can't help but feel you bringing up Amazon's warehouse conditions is a little beside the point and off topic (i.e. comments by the French Minister). It's almost as if you have some sort of axe to grind against Amazon and can barely restrain yourself from posting even the most tenuously relevant anti-Amazon material...

I doubt you'll find many people that are pro poor working conditions, but it doesn't seem terribly related to the topic.

Because all Mom and Pop Independent stores offer a living wage, full benefits, and treat their employees like family and hence are better than Amazon so we need the government to support the Publishers in their drive to keep the price of books high so more indenepndent bookstores stay open. That way, we save the worker from the hell of working at Amazon.

Or Walmart

Or Apple

of any of the other big businesses that have had labor complaints

Like Firefighters

and Police Officers

and Teachers

and Government Workers

How many strikes do they have in France a year? Aren't their groups complaining that they might have to work a 40 hour work week and not take so much vacation time in order to help address austerity measures?

[jgaiser]

When I was growing up 60+ years ago, we had little corner grocery stores. Usually family-owned with a little butcher shop in the back. Ours actually would deliver groceries to your house.

Times changed. Big supermarkets started appearing. Less personal service and you probably had to drive a considerable distance further, but oh.. the prices were so much cheaper and the selection was so much greater. Now, virtually no little corner stores.

Maybe we should have had a government stepping to to save those little stores. Because certainly they deserved to survive as much as the independent bookstores do today.

[ProfCrash]

But the grocery stores today deliver and you can order online.

[QuantumIguana]

I choose to shop at a smaller grocery store. At the big box stores, I feel I need to get a sherpa to get around. If you're in the dairy section, and you forgot something in produce, it's a long haul back to the priduce section. At the story I shop at, they are also on opposite sides, but those sides are a lot closer. I do pay a little more, but I am in and out in less time. And being smaller, it is more in touch with the market in the neighborhood; there are some things that I get at my smaller store that I can't get at the warehouse stores. I buy my meat at a small meat market. I'll never buy hot dogs that were factory made and sealed in plastic who knows how long ago. After eating the hot dogs I get from this place, I can't go back. The jalapeno bratwurst is great. We buy from the Farmers Market when we can.

If you really want to support small businesses, the best way is simply to spend your money there.

[Barcey]

My great grandfather used to deliver milk to houses in the city using a horse and wagon. The government really should have stepped in to preserve that delivery model.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Maybe we should have had a government stepping to to save those little stores. Because certainly they deserved to survive as much as the independent bookstores do today.

Nobody stepped up to help them, right?
Just as nobody stepped up to save Borders.
Minor regret expressed but when it came time to put money behind the words...

When citizens get to vote with their wallet *they* don't vote protectionist; that is for politicians taking care of the entrenched powers at the expense of the consumers.

It's all a matter of whose money is at stake.