Ebook Piracy

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Doesn't that assume the people with the illegal copies would agree the legit copies were worth the asking price?
HP7 wasn't worth what I paid for it .

Everyone takes that risk when they buy something... it's called "buyer beware," and it means don't take the advertising at face value, or prepare to be disappointed.

You can return some things that disappoint and get a refund. Others you can resell, and at least recover some of what you spent. But either way, your only weapon is to check things out before you buy, so you won't get burned.

Want to make absolutely sure you won't get burned? Don't buy it.

[nekokami]

Given the sales of the HP books, I suspect most of the people who have unauthorized ebooks have already paid for the pbooks.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

...your only weapon is to check things out before you buy, so you won't get burned.

You can often only check books out to a limited extent before you buy them.
If I'm charged £9.99 for a book that's only worth £4.50 - I've had £5.49 stolen from me by deception (it may be legalised theft, that I just have to put up with; but it's theft just the same).

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Want to make absolutely sure you won't get burned? Don't buy it.

You could equally say - want to make absolutely sure you won't get pirated? Don't publish it.
Whether we consume or produce, it's our decision - no-one is forcing us to be either.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Given the sales of the HP books, I suspect most of the people who have unauthorized ebooks have already paid for the pbooks.

That's a complete "red herring". You're not suggesting that buying a paper book should entitle you to a "free" eBook, are you? Do you expect a free paperback when you buy a hardback?

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's a complete "red herring". You're not suggesting that buying a paper book should entitle you to a "free" eBook, are you? Do you expect a free paperback when you buy a hardback?

I think he means that people who paid for their pbooks already read HP. What is a point of buying ebooks now?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

I think he means that people who paid for their pbooks already read HP. What is a point of buying ebooks now?

Many of the people who downloaded the illegal eBook were quite happy to do so, on the grounds that "they COULDN'T buy a legal eBook". Presumably those with some sense of morals would be happy to buy the eBook legally, should it become available. The idea that having bought the paper book should somehow "let you off" paying for the eBook I find somewhat bizarre, personally.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Many of the people who downloaded the illegal eBook were quite happy to do so, on the grounds that "they COULDN'T buy a legal eBook". Presumably those with some sense of morals would be happy to buy the eBook legally, should it become available. The idea that having bought the paper book should somehow "let you off" paying for the eBook I find somewhat bizarre, personally.

Could buy the eBook at the time. The situations are not identical so why assume it? What people find bizarre is just a matter of taste.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Could buy the eBook at the time. The situations are not identical so why assume it? What people find bizarre is just a matter of taste.

Sorry Tommy, but you COULDN'T - and still can't - buy a "legal" Harry Potter eBook. Ms. Rowling refuses to allow their release as eBooks.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry Tommy, but you COULDN'T - and still can't - buy a "legal" Harry Potter eBook. Ms. Rowling refuses to allow their release as eBooks.

Yes, and? We were talking about a hypothetical case here. The point was that just because you at one poiint in time wanted to buy en eBook does not mean that you want to buy it at another point in time. So your argument was not correct.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, and? We were talking about a hypothetical case here. The point was that just because you at one poiint in time wanted to buy en eBook does not mean that you want to buy it at another point in time. So your argument was not correct.

Whether you WANT to buy it now is, IMHO, of no importance. If you justified your illegal download of a book at the time on the grounds that you couldn't buy that book legally then you are - to my mind - morally obliged to buy it if it DOES subsequently appear on the legal market. To act otherwise is, to my way of thinking, wrong.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Whether you WANT to buy it now is, IMHO, of no importance. If you justified your illegal download of a book at the time on the grounds that you couldn't buy that book legally then you are - to my mind - morally obliged to buy it if it DOES subsequently appear on the legal market. To act otherwise is, to my way of thinking, wrong.

Yes, but that you are thinking so is not an argument for that it is so. Why do you not have a time factor in your analysis? Why are you incurring some moral debt to do something at a future timepoint when according to you the first action was morally wrong anyway?

And why should you buy the eBook version? Why not send money to the author directly and not bother with a future eBook version? Why are you not morally required according to you to send money directly to the author?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, but that you are thinking so is not an argument for that it is so. Why do you not have a time factor in your analysis? Why are you incurring some moral debt to do something at a future timepoint when according to you the first action was morally wrong anyway?

And why should you buy the eBook version? Why not send money to the author directly and not bother with a future eBook version? Why are you not morally required according to you to send money directly to the author?

This is not my argument as such - it was the justification posted by many people here in July when the final HP book was released. I would have thought personally that anyone who DID use that argument WOULD feel obliged to buy the eBook should it be subsequently released, but perhaps not everyone shares my view of "how the world should be".

Why not send money to the author directly? Because a book is not only the results of the author's work. All sorts of people are involved in the production and sale of a successful book, from the publisher to the distributor. All deserve their share of the income from a sale. Many people here seem to be of the opinion that publishers are the "bad guys" in the book world, taking the lion's share of the income and doing little or nothing for it. I suspect that these people have never had a book published, and don't realise how much work the publisher does.

[tompe]

But they cannot deserve their share from a sale if they are not actually selling the product. I do not really see how you are morally required to pay to somebody that potentially can make a product available. I said the author because I assumed ha had the rights but maybe it is the publisher or somebody else. But my point is that it seems very arbitrary to argue that to buy the eBook if it becomes available is the right thing to do. I think the argument that if people are not making the product available they are losing the sale is as convincing. Or that the right thing is to privately pay the person or entity having the rights to publish the thing. And so on.

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Whether you WANT to buy it now is, IMHO, of no importance. If you justified your illegal download of a book at the time on the grounds that you couldn't buy that book legally then you are - to my mind - morally obliged to buy it if it DOES subsequently appear on the legal market. To act otherwise is, to my way of thinking, wrong.

I disagree with you, although I do agree with the next line:

The idea that having bought the paper book should somehow "let you off" paying for the eBook I find somewhat bizarre, personally.

(I would like to emphesize that we are speaking about moral issues not legality atm)

If at the moment of buying a person had a choice to buy ebook or pbook and this person has chosen pbook - there is no excuse for downloading ebook from darknet. IMHO.
However, if at the time of purchasing there was no choice and a person who could download the ebook from the darknet for free, bought the pbook anyway, there is no moral issue if the person refuses to buy ebook in a some distant future.

Just because whoever published the book was being stubborn and stupid and refused to accept the reality of modern world it would not mean that customers should be ripped off. Mind you, we are speaking about right now. It is not about a book that was published 15-20 years ago when there was no such thing as ebook. It is about now when someone is being plain stupid or lets be more PC and say shortsighted. Though the reality of business is quite simple. Either you are being smart and you know what your customers need and you succeed otherwise..... your fail. Businessworld is an unforgiveable beast.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's a complete "red herring". You're not suggesting that buying a paper book should entitle you to a "free" eBook, are you? Do you expect a free paperback when you buy a hardback?

HarryT, you and I have discussed this several times before. You know that I believe that once you've paid for a license for the content, you've paid. I know that you disagree (and in the UK, the laws would seem to agree with you, whereas in the US, where I live, the situation is far less clear and various forms of content shifting have been judged to be legal in the past).

I know you don't agree with me. You know I don't agree with you. Why post as if we haven't had this discussion before? I start to feel as though there's no point saying anything to you at all. I don't expect you to agree with me, but it would be nice if you'd at least acknowledge that you're aware of my point of view.