Fifty Shades of Grey tops NYT Bestsellers - mainly from ebook sales

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

getting back to the original topic for a moment, apparently movie rights for 50 Shades has been sold for a huge amount of money.

SmartBitchesTrashyBooks has an interesting discussion on this.

http://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/b...-movie-success

*gag*

[abookreader]

I can't even imagine it.

Now that I've typed that, watch it turn out to be the blockbuster of the year.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

The fact that the characters have had sex is integral to the plot.
Is the positions used and details of the grunts and moans integral to the plot?

It can be. Not to go into detail here, but if a partner is inconsiderate; if there is sexual dysfunction or incompatibility; if one partner is experienced or another is not; if the sex actually creates problems for the relationship; if the way a partner makes love shows their tendency to, say, dominate, submit, or abuse--details can forward the plot and character development. I actually find the psychological aspect of romances or novels dealing with sexual issues like this to be very interesting, but only if it's done well. Sometimes I think I don't really enjoy overblown unrealistic fantasy-driven erotica as much as reading about the emotional fallout from bad sex. Is that so wrong?

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I've read a few of the NASCAR themed romances - I wondered about that!

Yeah I didn't know about it either till SB blog did a post on it. I have about the entire collection of NASCAR HQs but I've only read a few.

Originally Posted by faithbw

I read one romance where there was a lot of sexual tension but the sex scene came at the end. I can't remember the name of it now. Actually the novel itself was rather run of the mill but I still remember it because it delayed the sex scene so much, more than in other romance novels with sex scenes.

My first Diana Palmer book I read which was Justin from the Long Tall Texans series was like that but it skimmed over the scene and I felt really let down!

I love romances that have plenty of sexual tension and they build it up before they jump into the sack together. The newer ones of today most of them are in bed together before mid book. This is why I read older romances of the 90s unless it's paranormal or suspense. Some really good ones out there that don't focus on all physical attraction but an actual plot and sex just adds to the story.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

The fact that the characters have had sex is integral to the plot.
Is the positions used and details of the grunts and moans integral to the plot?

In some books definitely because it's during that intimate time the hero usually realizes he is in love with her and it's just not lust. It happens to the heroine in some books as well but I find more often in the romances I read the hero has a light bulb go off over his head during those scenes.

I've read books where the couple were being intimate and then bingo! Something click into place for them that was essential to the plot. This is why I don't skim those scenes.

[faithbw]

Originally Posted by Blossom

My first Diana Palmer book I read which was Justin from the Long Tall Texans series was like that but it skimmed over the scene and I felt really let down!

I love romances that have plenty of sexual tension and they build it up before they jump into the sack together. The newer ones of today most of them are in bed together before mid book. This is why I read older romances of the 90s unless it's paranormal or suspense. Some really good ones out there that don't focus on all physical attraction but an actual plot and sex just adds to the story.

Exactly! There needs to be a plot and we need to be shown (not told) why the characters love each other. I read one romance not long ago (Fever Cure) where I don't even think I got a quarter way through the book and the hero was giving the heroine oral sex! I mean it was their first date and they had only met a couple times previously before that. Needless to say that one was full of sex scenes. It was surprising because I read previous novels by the same author and they were nothing like that one. I don't know if her publisher told her she needed more sex in her novels or if she just felt like experimenting but I almost felt like I read erotica as opposed to a romance novel. The sex was so gratuitous that it really didn't add to the story.

I really like to see why the characters are attracted to each other before they start tearing each other's clothes off.

[MrsJoseph]

I agree. If the couple is just jumping into bed my eyes tend to roll and the book is considered a "wall banger." (I wish I could really throw some of them but ereaders don't allow for that. *sigh*)

[BeccaPrice]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I agree. If the couple is just jumping into bed my eyes tend to roll and the book is considered a "wall banger." (I wish I could really throw some of them but ereaders don't allow for that. *sigh*)

yeah; hitting the delete key just doesn't have the same effect.

I'm currently re-reading The Search by Nora Roberts, one of her more recent books - there's a fair bit of sex in it, but it's all by implication, no "tab a into slot b" kinds of stuff. Roberts is great at showing the emotional arc of love making without being too graphic. I like that in an author.

[JSWolf]

So from what I am reading, if the sex is written explicitly with a poor story behind it, it's porn. But take that same sex scene and put it in a book with a decent to good story and it's romance?

[BeccaPrice]

again, I'm no scholar on these things, but it's not just a poor story, it's the amount of story. If the plot:sex ratio is too much on the sex side, it's either erotica or porn.

The other part of it is the question, what is served by the sex scene? if it furthers the emotional arc of the characters, it's either erotica or romance. If it's just there for the sake of having a sex scene, it verges into porn (again depending on the amount of plot and the graphicness of the description of sex)

in romance, it's not just "sex" it's "making love" because it's the emotions that are important.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

again, I'm no scholar on these things, but it's not just a poor story, it's the amount of story. If the plot:sex ratio is too much on the sex side, it's either erotica or porn.

The other part of it is the question, what is served by the sex scene? if it furthers the emotional arc of the characters, it's either erotica or romance. If it's just there for the sake of having a sex scene, it verges into porn (again depending on the amount of plot and the graphicness of the description of sex)

in romance, it's not just "sex" it's "making love" because it's the emotions that are important.

But why is it the same sex scene is porn in one book and not in another? Would it not be one or the other based on the scene and not what's around it?

[BeccaPrice]

context is everthing. You could have sex with your wife and with a prostitute, and even if the actions were the same, they would be different kinds of acts.

what about the term "emotional arc" do you not understand?

[BeccaPrice]

Here's a quote from the Smart Bitches web page:

[blockquote]So let's use that as the "working" definition of porn vs. erotica. Porn is the depiction of sex in written or visual media, without focus on emotions, cause or effect, while erotica includes the depiction of sexual acts with additional analysis of the reason why that sexual act works. To put it another way, with pornography, you're not included in the character's minds or motivations, and with erotica, you are.

Thus erotic romance is the story of a courtship or establishment of a romantic relationship… with a heavy focus or presence of explicit sexual scenes, and may include analysis or insight into emotion and motivation beyond "I wish to have the sex now." Moreover, with erotic romance and erotica, the sexuality is integral to the development of the story; it's not just embellishment to the sex scenes.

So erotica and erotic romance have more in common with one another than they do with pornography, gravity-defying sex notwithstanding. That is not surprising. [/blockquote]

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

One of my favorite books that has both some action and romance is Agnes and the Hitman. Of course, there's some issues with the characterizations for me - I would prefer a little more depth - but I loved it all the same! It's also a stand alone

What a fun book.

The intelligence and/or gullibility of various characters needed to fluctuate at times to accommodate certain plot points/events, it seemed... but the pages kept right on turning regardless, so I'm not going to dwell on it. Thanks for the suggestion!

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What a fun book.

The intelligence and/or gullibility of various characters needed to fluctuate at times to accommodate certain plot points/events, it seemed... but the pages kept right on turning regardless, so I'm not going to dwell on it. Thanks for the suggestion!

I'm glad you liked it!

I agree with the intelligence levels...but it worked rather well for me, too.