Should Libraries Charge for eBooks?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Actually, no. Free public libraries did not exist when copyright came into existence. Further, the lending of pbooks has nothing to do with copyright, at least that I can see.

"Distribution" of copyrighted works is covered under copyright law. Normally, the first sale doctrine exhausts the copyright owner's rights, and the buyer can distribute/lend/resell at will--but a recent case before the US Supreme Court is challenging that right.

The 9th Circuit ruled that the first-sale doctrine applied only to items legally made in the United States. Which means that books published in other countries may not be legal to lend or resell, even if purchased legally in their country of origin.

[Sydney's Mom]

The remuneration to the author by the library and the charge the library may impose on ebook borrowers are 2 different things. I really can only speaker from a borrower's perspective.

Traditionally, libraries charged everyone in the community, the thought being that a literate society benefits us all. Libaries have never charged by use. I pay the same whether I don't use the library, or I borrow the maximum I can - I pay based on living in the community.

The question is whether offerring ebooks is so outside the purview of the traditional ibrary that it can be an add-on charge. I think not. If I were to be charged for ebooks, I would no longer be willing to support pbooks.

Libraries are in a fight for their lives in the current age. In our village, only children use the physical library. I am willing to continue to fund the library, especially the physical building, so long as the library continues to have relevance to me. I am not willing to continue to fund the library at the current amount ($500/year) if it stops being of any relevance to me.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Why not? Do you expect authors to write for free, just to make sure that libraries have something to lend?

Let's just say I think it's interesting when an author advocates library fees because HOW ELSE WILL THE LIBRARY MAKE ENDS MEET with a lot of sound and fury about how GOVERNMENT FINANCING WILL FAIL in the long term and then at the same time announces that *his* book won't be donated to any libraries until he's paid for HIS effort.

One way a library could make ends meet is by, you know, more authors donating their works. Heck, it'd be advantageous for everyone because the author might gain a few devoted readers that way who will buy their book for their own copy and maybe the next work too. Konrath does that, and I would too.

But, no, god forbid the author not get his $1.50 or whatever that the library would have to pay for a single license to his indie book. I mean, seriously? If you won't donate a single $1.50 license to your library, then you have no business pushing fees because I'm pretty sure you're not going to be willing to pay those either. I'm not feeling the library love there.

Fortunately, I'm pretty sure my library isn't struggling to make ends meet by buying that particular magnum opus. They're too busy spending the last charity check I sent them.

[purple_fishy]

Originally Posted by elizilla

I have now gifted two e-readers to friends who would never have been able to afford them. Both are older. One of them has been intermittently homeless, and had to give up on owning books. The other is living on a fixed income in a very small apartment, and has reached an age when books are hard to carry around. I gave them these readers so they could indulge their love of reading despite their inability to stockpile dead tree books. Both of these people are heavy library users and would benefit from the ability to get ebooks from the library, and neither could afford to pay for library ebooks.

I just wanted to jump in and say thank you for being so generous! I am sure your friends are happy to be able to read.

[DianNC]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Libraries are in a fight for their lives in the current age.

That's not true for all areas, though. My county just celebrated a ribbon-cutting for a brand new library and none have cut hours or closed that I know of.

I am willing to continue to fund the library, especially the physical building, so long as the library continues to have relevance to me. I am not willing to continue to fund the library at the current amount ($500/year) if it stops being of any relevance to me.

If a portion of your property taxes go to funding your library system, its relevance to you doesn't much matter.

We pay fairly hefty property tax on two homes in my state, a large portion of which goes to funding the public schools. We don't have school-age children, but I don't begrudge paying for schools just because they have no relevance to me personally.

Besides, while I think it's an interesting discussion, I also think it's a moot point in thinking that libraries will start charging for any of their services. There are many, many other ways to raise funds and generally, many, many interested parties that will see that it gets done.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

"Distribution" of copyrighted works is covered under copyright law. Normally, the first sale doctrine exhausts the copyright owner's rights, and the buyer can distribute/lend/resell at will--but a recent case before the US Supreme Court is challenging that right.

The 9th Circuit ruled that the first-sale doctrine applied only to items legally made in the United States. Which means that books published in other countries may not be legal to lend or resell, even if purchased legally in their country of origin.

I haven't researched it, but "lending" in the physical context does not strike me as equating to "distribution," at least, in the absence of an element of profit. But even if that were not to prove to be the case, it appears to me that lending by a public library would be permitted by the governmental aspect of fair use.

I strongly doubt that any public library could be constrained from lending a legally acquired book. The historical record combined with the public policy aspects seem to me to make that pretty near a certainty.

I believe that ninth circuit case is the one about the watch logo? That occurred in a commercial context. It will not be extended to libraries.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

"Distribution" of copyrighted works is covered under copyright law. Normally, the first sale doctrine exhausts the copyright owner's rights, and the buyer can distribute/lend/resell at will--but a recent case before the US Supreme Court is challenging that right.

The 9th Circuit ruled that the first-sale doctrine applied only to items legally made in the United States. Which means that books published in other countries may not be legal to lend or resell, even if purchased legally in their country of origin.

Costco lost that case. Omega Watches won.

The Supreme Court in a 4-4 ruling upheld the 9th Circuit Court decision which is only binding in Western US.

It is now theoretically illegal to purchase a DVD, book, software, or CD from China or Taiwan and resell it in the area covered by the 9th Circuit. If, the item was not produced there by the copyright holder with the intention to be sold in the US.

Interestingly, it wasn't the Omega watch that was the problem but the design on the back that was copyrighted.

[SameOldStory]

Originally Posted by apbschmitz

What an interesting discussion, in that it never occurred to me that libraries would charge (beyond taxes) for access to content. Where I live (St. Paul, Minnesota, US) it would be absolute political suicide to suggest that anyone pay for access to library materials. There's a presumption that it's like police or fire protection — a service where it's of no significance whether you're rich or poor. Everyone is treated the same. Currently eBooks are available for free via Overdrive at the city libraries.

Of course the poor are abused in a million different ways here, but not at the library.

Where I live, even police and fire fighters services are being cut, never mind libraries!

From across the river -
Violent crime spikes 19% in Camden (NJ)

"A dramatic increase in shootings and significant jump in violent crime in Camden since the city's massive police layoff could be a sobering omen of what's to come, authorities said Wednesday as initial 2011 statistics were released."


So, no. I wouldn't mind paying an additional fee for something that is above and beyond the lending of paper books. And if it gives them more money to buy more paper books, ebooks, or audiobooks all the better.

[J. Strnad]

This is a very interesting discussion! Thanks to all who've participated so far.

It's interesting to me how institutions develop their own will to live, like all living things. The March of Dimes, for instance, began as an institution to battle polio. Once the polio vaccine was successfully developed, did they go away? Nope. They became an institution to battle birth defects. That mission should keep them in business for a good, long while.

The March of Dimes evolved to stay alive. They had the organization and the reputation and it would have been a shame for them to fade away with so much more good work to do.

Now our libraries are at risk. With tax revenue down, services are being cut that were previously considered "essential." These include fire, police, schools, and health services (including mental health). And libraries.

Facing the fact that much of their mission has been usurped by the internet, libraries are having to evolve to stay alive. Part of that evolution involves the services they provide, but another part lies with their funding.

Government support is waning. If libraries were an animal species, it would be as if their main food source were drying up. Like an animal that needs to find another source of food, which may entail a change of diet, libraries may find they need to look further than the government for support. They've always held book sales and taken private donations and charged some fees, so now is the time to double down on those efforts.

Maybe some of those wonderful, free-market corporations that are doing so well, who get the tax breaks they spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year lobbying for...maybe it's time for them to pony up in a bigger way.

Maybe while they're paying millions for the naming rights to a new stadium, they could throw a hundred thousand into naming a library.

Maybe Amazon could reach a settlement with the state of California: We'll not pay your state sales tax, but we'll match at some ratio whatever your state pays for libraries every year.

Ultimately, libraries may find that weaning themselves from the government teat is the best thing they can do. (NPR here in Southern California seems to be adapting quite nicely to that scenario.) Once free of the stigma that they are funded by our tax dollars, libraries might be surprised at the amount of private support they can muster.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

With tighter budgets, libraries are feeling the crunch and are being forced into cutting back on services and even closing down some of their branches. With that in mind, would you be willing to pay a yearly fee ($25~$50) to checkout ebooks, music, videos and other e-content? Fees collected would only be used to support e-content. All other library services would remain "free".

This library in New Zealand is about to go live with ebooks, but will charge patrons for the service.

I already pay a yearly fee and it's higher than 25 dollars a year. Approximately 17 dollars a month is taken out of my water bill MONTHLY to cover library and fire services. No library in the US is free. The money for books, salaries and other expenses comes out of a direct tax (such as the one showing on my water bill) or county or property taxes.

So, in long, no. I already pay a fee for the library services. It has gone up steadily EVERY year. It used to be 15 dollars per year. Then 20. Then they got the brilliant idea to put it in the water bill. The library fee, the first year was set at 6 dollars PER MONTH. Each year since, that fee has gone up.

[BearMountainBooks]

I should also point out that Dell, a big corporation here in Texas, does Library grants every year (or at least they used to.) My library received grants from Dell for 4 years (while I was working there, I was aware of it. I don't know if they are still receiving it.)

One grant was for computers and another was to be spent strictly on books.

Dell is not the only large corporation (or small one for that matter) that does these grants. Some of it is up to the librarians to know, understand and APPLY for them. They have to have programs that these corporations wish to support. My library works VERY hard to make sure they have these programs that qualify them for various grants.

Full Disclosure: I do not own a Dell and have never owned a Dell. I worked for them years ago, but have also worked at HP. I have no stock in Dell or HP. No horse in the race--but was darned happy that they gave my library a grant for books. It was a generous one and it meant a significant amount of books for the library.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I already pay a yearly fee and it's higher than 25 dollars a year. Approximately 17 dollars a month is taken out of my water bill MONTHLY to cover library and fire services. No library in the US is free. The money for books, salaries and other expenses comes out of a direct tax (such as the one showing on my water bill) or county or property taxes.

So, in long, no. I already pay a fee for the library services. It has gone up steadily EVERY year. It used to be 15 dollars per year. Then 20. Then they got the brilliant idea to put it in the water bill. The library fee, the first year was set at 6 dollars PER MONTH. Each year since, that fee has gone up.

Are any of the libraries in your area facing cutbacks or closures?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

With tighter budgets, libraries are feeling the crunch and are being forced into cutting back on services and even closing down some of their branches. With that in mind, would you be willing to pay a yearly fee ($25~$50) to checkout ebooks, music, videos and other e-content? Fees collected would only be used to support e-content. All other library services would remain "free".

This library in New Zealand is about to go live with ebooks, but will charge patrons for the service.

NO! I already pay for it with my tax dollars!

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

This is a very interesting discussion! Thanks to all who've participated so far.

It's interesting to me how institutions develop their own will to live, like all living things. The March of Dimes, for instance, began as an institution to battle polio. Once the polio vaccine was successfully developed, did they go away? Nope. They became an institution to battle birth defects. That mission should keep them in business for a good, long while.

>> snipped for brevity <<

Ultimately, libraries may find that weaning themselves from the government teat is the best thing they can do. (NPR here in Southern California seems to be adapting quite nicely to that scenario.) Once free of the stigma that they are funded by our tax dollars, libraries might be surprised at the amount of private support they can muster.

Excellent post. Totally agree.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Are any of the libraries in your area facing cutbacks or closures?

Discussions of less hours comes up every year (my library is open on Sunday, a rarity as well as every other day--a rarity.) When the budget is done this year, Sunday is expected to go. It was only added as an open half-day perhaps...6 years ago, I think.

The thing is that while we are charged MONTHLY for the library fee--it goes into a general fund. The politicians are not held to making sure that fee goes to the library. It's put in a general fund and then wasted happily on repaving roads that don't need it, but by golly, it was scheduled to be repaved every two years. Or they buy fireworks for 4th and New Years and blow up the money.

Anyway, yes, they are facing some cutbacks. My library does a number of things to raise money; they have yearly things such as spelling bee contests (paid and sponsored for by local businesses). They have reading time for various ages, which brings in a lot of patrons, which means Donations and the possibility that money will be allocated to the library. They apply for numerous grants each year, which is where a lot of the books come from. They are very active with Friends of the Library raising money through sales of books and other fund raisers. They have summer reading that is sponsored by local businesses (prizes given to the kids for each level of "books read" that they reach.) In short, the library is extremely active in the community so it is funded rather better than other libraries.

When it decided to carry ebooks, it joined 2 Austin libraries to save costs. That means it doesn't have many books and the waiting list is *quite* long for books. Overdrive isn't the most generous program either, when it comes to lending.

One of the issues I have is the city council voting to raise the tax paid for libraries and fire (pretty easy to get support) but then using the money for whatever pet project they have (raising their own salaries, adding a council member, or more recently using their power to do back alley deals that got them charged for corruption.)

It's not as easy as saying, "Sure raise taxes for libraries!" And that is true in most counties. If you want to support your library--next time there's something on the ballot about it, find out if the funds HAVE to be spent on the library. If they don't, find some other way to support your library.

So if the council were to even SUGGEST a fee for ebooks, I'd be completely against it. ANY money raised by the library (overdue fees, program fees, and so on) goes into a general fund. The library does NOT get to keep it. So the answer would be NO. With a curse word in front of it.