Are Attitudes About E-Book Prices Changing?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

That is a pBook mindset. With pBooks they will have a limited shelf life in bookshops before they are returned, so you have to maximise sales in a short time window, then dump it for the next book to come along.
With eBooks, they all have unlimited shelf life. There is nothign stopping every eBook ever made to still be available to purchase, so it becomes a feasible business model to make money on the long tail of purchases, rather than having to push one best seller.

Yes, But feasible is different from earning a lot of money. Publishing a book is a gamble. So the income from some few books will determine how much money you can spend on each gamble. Yes, you can maybe spend a lot less and maybe lower the quality and tale less risks and survive on feasibility. But this will change the kind of books that will be available.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

Unfortunately, those of us who liked to wait until we could buy a used or clearance copy of HC or PB for $3-5, or even an e-book that will be priced below the discounted PB, will be waiting forever thanks to the Agency 6. I've rarely seen them price backlist titles below new PB prices. I used to get them all the time when Fictionwise was having its sales.

You make it sound like the "Agency 6" make all the books, or that all the books made are ebooks. If an ebooks doesn't drop in price, buy the used paper back...coming soon to a garage sale near you for a nickel.

eBooks are not going to be "the place to be" for those who's preferred book price is the used book. So just continue buying the used book. Or ready any of the hundreds of thousands of free out of copyright books or any of the millions of cheap indie books.

Lee

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ATimson

You're right, I should have said either "Agency 6 ebooks" or "the vast majority of professional ebooks". My apologies for the confusion.

Even though Agency prices can't be discounted, that doesn't necessarily imply that they are unreasonable. Eg, consider Agatha Christie's "Murder on the Orient Express" at Amazon UK:

Print List Price: £6.99
Kindle Price: £3.99 includes VAT & free wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
You Save: £3.00 (43%)
Unlike print books, digital books are subject to VAT.
This price was set by the publisher

Amazon's paperback price for this book is £4.73, so I'd consider an eBook price of £3.99 pretty reasonable myself.

[justapuppy]

[Rant]: I need a psychology textbook based on a test that was published in 1997, and was updated in 2008. Ebook prices range from £22 (only one site) to £60... WTF - £60 for a book that it at least 3 years out of all normal use?

Yet still, I need it, I'll probably end up spending that £22 for just a month of use, by then we'll have the new test available :|
[/Rant]

[outlander78]

Originally Posted by ATimson

Funny, I don't seem to have any cards - it used to be that if I didn't like a retailer's offerings I could go somewhere else. But with the retailers reduced to agents, they're all equally bad.

I had an answer ready to go, but Lee said it better - you have the choice to buy or not, and the publisher cannot take that away from you.

[jbcohen]

For those of us on the other side of the pond thats from $35.71 to $97.38, currency conversions provided by Xe.com.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by apbschmitz

More likely for me is that I won't buy it now, time will pass, I won't remember this book, I won't buy it later and I won't read it. I'll be on to something else.

This is quite easily remedied by keeping a list. I keep a list of every Kindle ebook I am interested in on ereaderiq.com. When the price comes down to a level that I am willing to purchase it at, then I buy it.

Prior to ebooks, I kept my list in Delicious Library on my Mac, and would get my books from the public library.

[outlander78]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

This is quite easily remedied by keeping a list. I keep a list of every Kindle ebook I am interested in on ereaderiq.com. When the price comes down to a level that I am willing to purchase it at, then I buy it.

Prior to ebooks, I kept my list in Delicious Library on my Mac, and would get my books from the public library.

It is easily remedied by keeping a list. I keep a short list for the few books I am truly interested in. For the rest, I see the lost sales as punishment for their annoying approach to selling content. My contribution would trivial (one sale per book), but I find it satisfying. If they want to test me to see how much I can bear, they lose.

[DMB]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

It's clearly superior to you. But not necessarily for everybody. It is a different product with different aspects, which may or may be be superior to paper books.

As mentioned, you can't resell them. Also, you can't give them away, either. They may be more durable, but only if you work at maintaining their durability. Paper can last for centuries. They require working high-tech equipment to use, paper does not. Clearly a mixed bag.

To me, as to you, I consider them a superior product - for my uses. I can't speak for other people, though...

Paper books, especially printed on paper since the 19th century don't last well, because of the acid content. Parchment now...

[bbusybookworm]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Even though Agency prices can't be discounted, that doesn't necessarily imply that they are unreasonable. Eg, consider Agatha Christie's "Murder on the Orient Express" at Amazon UK:

Print List Price: £6.99
Kindle Price: £3.99 includes VAT & free wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
You Save: £3.00 (43%)
Unlike print books, digital books are subject to VAT.
This price was set by the publisher

Amazon's paperback price for this book is £4.73, so I'd consider an eBook price of £3.99 pretty reasonable myself.

Harry, Ill have a to Disagree a little here, at least with this example.

For this book, and many others like it, you're not only competing with the Paperback, but also the second-hand market. For something as common as Dame Christie's Books, I can usually find then for between 50p to £2 for Paperbacks and £1-£3 for hardbacks.

For those, many may choose to go second hand, and the Publisher gets nothing. A lower price for books such as this, older publication widely available second hand may just tip the price convenience ratio towards the ebook.

For myself and many people I know the The impulse / price decision for a book goes something like this (This is probably different for other people, but for I've found that its pretty close for people my age, or in similar circumstances)

£1 - Get it now! If its junk, its only the price of a Soda and a chocolate bar.
£2 - Think a bit but get it now if it looks interesting. Its not worth looking elsewhere for a cheaper price
£3 - Think twice. Thrice. Get it if it looks interesting. Its at the limit for just trying without worrying too much about it.
£4 - Now start checking elsewhere, though if it something I can't get elsewhere I'll get it otherwise, save it for a future spulge.
£5-£10 - Only for a my Favourite authors or something I'm really interested in but usually not for a brand new author or just for a lark.
£11+ - Sorry but anything over this is really going to have to convince me that its worth it to me to get it in E at that price. If I'm paying that much its usually for something I want to cherish or share, so Paper usually wins though I've paid quiet a lot for collections and such from Baen, etc as they treat me as a customer and not a potential pirate.

I'll also add that since the Agency 6 has happened, I'll really cut down on experimenting with new books as I can no longer use the FW sales and the subsequent credit to just blindly try a lot of new stuff out. As such those publishers have probably seen much less of my Money as a lot of the stuff I'm interested in trying out is priced well over my self imposed limits, and with the abundance of other options available its highly likely I'll not be going back to a lot of them .

[bbusybookworm]

Originally Posted by leebase

You make it sound like the "Agency 6" make all the books, or that all the books made are ebooks. If an ebooks doesn't drop in price, buy the used paper back...coming soon to a garage sale near you for a nickel.

eBooks are not going to be "the place to be" for those who's preferred book price is the used book. So just continue buying the used book. Or ready any of the hundreds of thousands of free out of copyright books or any of the millions of cheap indie books.

Lee

I agree, and do buy Paper second hand or on sale when the E is too overpriced for my tastes.

However for the Publisher its going to be a lost sale if I buy second Hand, and keeping the Price low enough, especially for older Midlist and Backlist will convince a lot of people like me that paying the Used or slight over that price is worth the convenience, despite the restriction on resale (I used to recover 40%-80% of price of the books I'd read but not liked enough to keep).

It also get people into the habit of buying the E Version, and as such at times even when the price is not the best, Its just more convenient to just buy the E rather then bother with even looking for the cheaper option.

Despite my limits, I actually did that last week, Spending about £50 on think it was 8 books, as while a couple were a little expensive, I just want to read them at that time and is was more convenient to have them all in E. Having said that if the books had been a little more expensive I'd probably not bought any of them or looked for them Used.

[anamardoll]

I keep wanting to jump into this convo and then pulling back... here goes...

A major problem with this kind of discussion is that people's preferences are, well, different. You take something like, say, the "value" of an eBook. Is it MORE valuable than a paper book because you can back it up indefinitely, mark it up as much as you want and then erase all your markings later, and it weighs practically nothing? Yes! Is it LESS valuable than a paper book because you can't sell the book second hand, it's not easy to loan to a friend, and you can't take it in "risky" situations without fear of losing $100s instead of $6.99? Yes!

So you get all these arguments about whether eBooks have "more value" than pBooks, which is a fallacious question anyway, because nothing has inherent value -- value is determined by the consumer.

Books DO have inherent COST, but even that is variable by author, cover artist, publishing house, etc. but at the very least you can probably draw a parallel between the inherent cost of the SAME book between pBook and eBook formats. Should there be a flat rate for ALL copies of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo", regardless of format? Probably not -- that would seem a little arbitrary to me, and potentially a huge loss to the seller (in the case of a high-cost, low-price hardback) or a huge loss to the buyers (in the case of a low-cost, high-price eBook).

Another thing you see is people arguing the high hardback price because of its immediacy, and the extrapolation that "release day" eBooks should be priced comparably high. And that's one theory, but not all "release day" people want to pay for the immediacy -- they want to buy because they heard the hype about the book and they're interested. If they balk at the high price, you've lost their money for TODAY; if they lose interest down the line or are turned off by negative reviews, you've lost their money FOREVER.

For me, it seems reasonable to offer "release day" eBooks at a fairly cheap ($9.99?) price to take advantage of the wave of publicity. My reasoning is that people who were going to buy the high price books for the immediacy are a much SMALLER group than the people who would buy at the lower price for the impulse buy. Can I prove that feeling, though? No. As far as I know, there have been no case studies on this -- and imho the industry is flawed because no one seems to want to test it. Not wanting to evolve or change into something better is a flaw, and the change process requires taking a small risk for a potentially huge payoff.

Saying "oh, just keep a list!" isn't an answer to the loss of impulse buyers; it's an answer to helping buyers track their interests over time. The problem of snagging impulse buyers is VERY crucial to the industry, and every negative review that goes up on your book (and quite a few positive reviews that don't fit the readers interest: a review like "The Best Christian Erotica Novel Ever!" is going to lose you a few readers, I think. ) DECREASES the chance that a potential impulse buyer will hit that button. And the further they get away from the release day hype, the more likely they are to remember that "Eh, I've got 500 titles in my To Read list already."

eBooks are potentially a VERY impulse friendly environment. The WiFi/3G readers advertise that you can buy and read in seconds. The cheaper titles are perfect for compulsive collectors and impulse buyers. I'm firmly of the opinion that impulse buying made Amanda Hocking quite a bit of money -- I KNOW *I* bought her first book based on the pretty cover and low price, and I STILL haven't read it. (Keep meaning to.) But she's got my money, along with countless other >$5 authors. Don't publishing companies want my money?

I'd like to get Rapture Ready in eBook form. I own the hardcover and loved it. But... it's been sitting at ~$16 for months in eBook form. And... you know... I just haven't bought it. Maybe I never will. I'm okay with that. The publishing company SHOULDN'T be.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I keep wanting to jump into this convo and then pulling back... here goes...

A major problem with this kind of discussion is that people's preferences are, well, different. You take something like, say, the "value" of an eBook. Is it MORE valuable than a paper book because you can back it up indefinitely, mark it up as much as you want and then erase all your markings later, and it weighs practically nothing? Yes! Is it LESS valuable than a paper book because you can't sell the book second hand, it's not easy to loan to a friend, and you can't take it in "risky" situations without fear of losing $100s instead of $6.99? Yes!

So you get all these arguments about whether eBooks have "more value" than pBooks, which is a fallacious question anyway, because nothing has inherent value -- value is determined by the consumer.

Books DO have inherent COST, but even that is variable by author, cover artist, publishing house, etc. but at the very least you can probably draw a parallel between the inherent cost of the SAME book between pBook and eBook formats. Should there be a flat rate for ALL copies of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo", regardless of format? Probably not -- that would seem a little arbitrary to me, and potentially a huge loss to the seller (in the case of a high-cost, low-price hardback) or a huge loss to the buyers (in the case of a low-cost, high-price eBook).

Another thing you see is people arguing the high hardback price because of its immediacy, and the extrapolation that "release day" eBooks should be priced comparably high. And that's one theory, but not all "release day" people want to pay for the immediacy -- they want to buy because they heard the hype about the book and they're interested. If they balk at the high price, you've lost their money for TODAY; if they lose interest down the line or are turned off by negative reviews, you've lost their money FOREVER.

For me, it seems reasonable to offer "release day" eBooks at a fairly cheap ($9.99?) price to take advantage of the wave of publicity. My reasoning is that people who were going to buy the high price books for the immediacy are a much SMALLER group than the people who would buy at the lower price for the impulse buy. Can I prove that feeling, though? No. As far as I know, there have been no case studies on this -- and imho the industry is flawed because no one seems to want to test it. Not wanting to evolve or change into something better is a flaw, and the change process requires taking a small risk for a potentially huge payoff.

Saying "oh, just keep a list!" isn't an answer to the loss of impulse buyers; it's an answer to helping buyers track their interests over time. The problem of snagging impulse buyers is VERY crucial to the industry, and every negative review that goes up on your book (and quite a few positive reviews that don't fit the readers interest: a review like "The Best Christian Erotica Novel Ever!" is going to lose you a few readers, I think. ) DECREASES the chance that a potential impulse buyer will hit that button. And the further they get away from the release day hype, the more likely they are to remember that "Eh, I've got 500 titles in my To Read list already."

eBooks are potentially a VERY impulse friendly environment. The WiFi/3G readers advertise that you can buy and read in seconds. The cheaper titles are perfect for compulsive collectors and impulse buyers. I'm firmly of the opinion that impulse buying made Amanda Hocking quite a bit of money -- I KNOW *I* bought her first book based on the pretty cover and low price, and I STILL haven't read it. (Keep meaning to.) But she's got my money, along with countless other >$5 authors. Don't publishing companies want my money?

I'd like to get Rapture Ready in eBook form. I own the hardcover and loved it. But... it's been sitting at ~$16 for months in eBook form. And... you know... I just haven't bought it. Maybe I never will. I'm okay with that. The publishing company SHOULDN'T be.

But they are... This is a business built on monopoly concepts, they have no clue about true competition. Nor do they want to. They are in control, and don't you ever forget it. They dictate, not the customer!

It's a mindset that's become obsolete in the digital age, but you can't convince them or their apologists of this. So break out a fiddle and a pack of marshmallows and watch the show...

[leebase]

Originally Posted by bbusybookworm

However for the Publisher its going to be a lost sale if I buy second Hand

Publishers have always had to deal with the used book market. They aren't going to price ebooks to compete with used ebooks to keep from losing a sale. They'll spend money trying to entice sales of new books.

Lee

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by leebase

Publishers have always had to deal with the used book market. They aren't going to price ebooks to compete with used ebooks to keep from losing a sale. They'll spend money trying to entice sales of new books.

Lee

But they CAN compete with the used market, if they price competitively. Book buyers aren't interchangeable -- some of us will pretty much ONLY buy Hardcovers, or Paperbacks, or eBooks. Most of us have a preferred format.

The thing that USUALLY shoves us out of our preferred format is price. If I REALLY want to read X, and Y is what price I feel X is worth, I will probably pay (Y + a) for my preferred format where "a" is a very small differential of X.

If X is priced at (Y + B) where "B" is a very LARGE differential of X, then I cannot or will not buy X at (Y + B).

In this case, I may, if I want X badly enough, leave my preferred format to use a different one, if I have the ability to use that format. If the used market is LESS than (Y + B), then I will opt for that.

Note that if the used market is less than Y, I will STILL buy an eBook at (Y + a) because it's my preferred format. But I will never, ever buy an eBook at (Y + B).

The mistake that you -- and the publishing companies -- are making is by saying "we can't compete with used prices". You're not understanding that you don't NEED to compete with used prices...

...EXCEPT in as much as used prices, increased availability, time distance from publishing date, and so forth drive down "Y" over time. THAT is how used prices (and a host of other concepts) matter in the overall scheme of things.