Strategies for reading the classics?

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Well, I guess we should ask the OP why HE wants to read the classics. I was approaching it from a "broaden my horizons" aspect, but you're right that there are other reasons to read classics.

But I do think the Greek classics are largely written by the top 'o the pile of that society, for better or worse. Alas, the Greek slaves for the most part weren't able to record their thoughts on a medium that has survived to reach us.

Even things like The Illiad and The Odyssey is written from the POV of the god-children and heroes and generals. Not so much from the POV of the cannon-fodders.

Originally Posted by DMB

I don't think that this is entirely true. For a start, the Iliad and Odyssey weren't initially "written". They were composed and handed down orally for several centuries before they were ever written down. And although society seems to have been stratified at least since the earliest civilisations, these epics (like Beowulf too, as an example from a different culture) appear to have been widely enjoyed in a society where most people were illiterate.

Yes, I know The Iliad and The Odyssey weren't initially written, but they are written down now, and when they were written down, they were written from the POV of men who were heroes and commanders and not from the cannon-fodder and the women being used in the camps. Which is what I said.

For better or worse, you don't really get to hear from the POV of the guys dying on the field who thought the whole war was a stupid waste. I'm also fairly certain (unless I missed a crucial passage) that you don't get to hear much from Briseis about how she feels about being awarded as a "war prize" to Achilles. Even when she's handed over to Agamemnon, it's all about Achilles' hurt pride, and not -- you know -- about what Briseis feels about being used by these men.

I'm not saying it's bad literature, I'm saying that if the OP wants broader horizons, more POVs are necessary than just that of the men on the top doing the killing and pillaging.

Getting hung up on WHO eventually wrote them down does not change WHOSE p.o.v. was employed in the text we now have available to us.

[jridley]

I fall into both camps on classics. Some I find impossible to keep going with. Others are among the best books I've ever read. Moby Dick, for instance, changed my entire view of what a novel could be; I had to drop every other book I've read down two notches as it defined a new "10" for me. Not necessarily because of the story, but largely because of what he could do with language.

[jridley]

Originally Posted by jocampo

I must confess I struggle reading English classics or even Bible, in English I mean. Lot of old or deprecated words and English syntax that it's difficult to follow.

For the Bible there is an easy fix for that. There are plenty of contemporary language translations available. Go pick up a copy of the NET bible. It's a pretty good translation and it's free. bible.org

I think this is valid since if you're reading the bible as an aid in understanding the other works, you don't need to get the phrasing exactly right (the KJV bible is actually kind of a rotten translation anyway), but to get the stories and names and such that many western authors assumed to be common knowledge when writing their stuff.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by jridley

For the Bible there is an easy fix for that. There are plenty of contemporary language translations available. Go pick up a copy of the NET bible. It's a pretty good translation and it's free. bible.org

I think this is valid since if you're reading the bible as an aid in understanding the other works, you don't need to get the phrasing exactly right (the KJV bible is actually kind of a rotten translation anyway), but to get the stories and names and such that many western authors assumed to be common knowledge when writing their stuff.

Hmmm... which Bible version do you recommend me? I'm willing to read or buy (in English) if I find a nice Kindle version.

Bibles are a good example of old and classic languages expressions. Even on Spanish, some Bibles try to use very old Spanish or Latin translations that for some readers are difficult to follow. But it is a wonderful way to expand vocabulary though.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Hmmm... which Bible version do you recommend me? I'm willing to read or buy (in English) if I find a nice Kindle version.

My favourite modern translation is the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV).

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by HarryT

My favourite modern translation is the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV).

How do I check on Amazon Harry? just like that? ...

[DMB]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Yes, I know The Iliad and The Odyssey weren't initially written, but they are written down now, and when they were written down, they were written from the POV of men who were heroes and commanders and not from the cannon-fodder and the women being used in the camps. Which is what I said.

For better or worse, you don't really get to hear from the POV of the guys dying on the field who thought the whole war was a stupid waste. I'm also fairly certain (unless I missed a crucial passage) that you don't get to hear much from Briseis about how she feels about being awarded as a "war prize" to Achilles. Even when she's handed over to Agamemnon, it's all about Achilles' hurt pride, and not -- you know -- about what Briseis feels about being used by these men.

I'm not saying it's bad literature, I'm saying that if the OP wants broader horizons, more POVs are necessary than just that of the men on the top doing the killing and pillaging.

Getting hung up on WHO eventually wrote them down does not change WHOSE p.o.v. was employed in the text we now have available to us.

But if you do read those classics through modern eyes, you do ask those questions. And, of course, you learn a lot about the status of women and slaves. But in a pre-literate society it was never likely that you would ever get the view of the people on the bottom of the heap. The people who composed the epics would not themselves have been at the top, but they had to please everyone, including the top people or they didn't eat.

I think there is so much about the Greeks in particular that paved the way for modern thought that they are well worth reading. And by the time of the pinnacle of Greek civilisation in the 5th century, Athenian male society was much less hierarchical than in the heroic age and also than nowadays. They had a direct democracy and even a great philosopher like Socrates did military service and farming. By the time of Socrates and the great dramatists, Homeric times were almost as remote as the Middle Ages are to us. We still enjoy Arthurian romances as films as well as fantasies that have even less connection to reality. But what we enjoy will tell future historians what we were like.

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by crich70

Not sure you meant me in your posting but if you did you are operating under an incorrect assumption. Actually I quite like the classics. I just thought the Twain quote was a good one considering the topic.

No, I did not mean you. I meant ardeegee and astra.

I was sure you meant the Twain quote to be humorous. Some people seemed to be taking it seriously, however.

If someone asked what Horror books to recommend, I'd have to say 'I don't read Horror' and step aside. I wouldn't go on a thread and say, 'Don't read it!' I fully realize that other people have an appreciation and knowledge of things I do not. I don't understand people who insist that everyone MUST enjoy the same things they do and MUST avoid the same things they dislike.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Yes, I know The Iliad and The Odyssey weren't initially written, but they are written down now, and when they were written down, they were written from the POV of men who were heroes and commanders and not from the cannon-fodder and the women being used in the camps. Which is what I said.

I see the heroic POV in the Iliad, but I don't see it in the Odyssey. In fact, I'm not sure I see any POV in the Oddysey.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by khalleron

I don't understand people who insist that everyone MUST enjoy the same things they do and MUST avoid the same things they dislike.

And yet, this is a thread about asking people for their opinions on which classics are worth reading and which aren't....

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Anyone got an omnibus Epub of all his works?

Ardeegee- It probably doesn't have all his works, but Kobobooks does have a "MobileReference" collection of 50+ works of Anthony Trollope for $4.99. I have it on my Sony reader and it's just over 16,000 epub pages! It seems to have most or all of his novels, as well as a number of short stories. Again, I don't know if it's a complete collection, but it's certainly a nice collection of his works.

Enjoy!
SteveK

[DMB]

I know some people who just read Trollope all the time. I'm a fan, but not to that extent. He is very popular with British politicians. I wonder why?

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by DMB

I know some people who just read Trollope all the time. I'm a fan, but not to that extent. He is very popular with British politicians. I wonder why?

My Dad reads him all the time (he's not a politician). I personally just couldn't get into Trollope's books.

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

And yet, this is a thread about asking people for their opinions on which classics are worth reading and which aren't....

'None of them' is not a helpful opinion.

An opinion on a book you've never read is completely worthless.

I can understand not wanting to get out of your comfort zone, but not wanting anyone else to get out of your comfort zone is just strange.

[Rizla]

A *strategy* to read classics? If you need a *strategy*, I suggest you read something else. It sounds too much like effort.

Anyway. Jane Austen is clearly good even though I've only read the first page of Pride and Prejudice. For Shakespeare, Midsummer Night's Dream is easy. I don't know why some Shakespeare is hard and some is easy. I can't get into Dickens. Some times I can't even understand him! H.G.Wells is better than you think Oh, and Wuthering Heights is a wild, strange kind of book.