Poll: Touchscreen or Buttons (E-ink)

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by Harmon

The high end Kindle(s) I was talking about were the anticipated Tablet version(s), not the existing K3G or the KDX. I agree with you that the latter really can't be considered "high end" except, of course, in terms of price.

In fact, the lack of wifi for the KDX makes it, in my view, the lowest of the low end. The reason is that you need wifi to get articles onto the KDX, or go to the trouble of hooking it up to your computer to get the articles. There are now several ways to send articles directly to your kindle from an internet browser, for example - but you can't use your free.kindle address without wifi. (You can use the regular kindle address for 3G delivery, but you have to pay. The "small fee" does add up.)

I didn't realize the KDX doesn't have wifi. I figured 3G would give the same functionality, but I'm not familiar with the workings of the DX.

The tablet is a whole other animal altogether, I think. We don't even know if it will be a "Kindle." Amazon may want to distance the device's image from the Kindle, since they will be utterly different products. I kind of expect them to call it a 'Kindle' something, but imo they shouldn't. That may have worked for the hillbillies who bought the Nook Color, but Kindle owners know what an ereader is. I kid.

[fleaaaaaa]

On the stylus..... on my Sony 350, there is a slot where the stylus sits, it blends in with the reader so well that I didn't know it was there until I got it home.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

I gave my 350 to my other half and went back to the 300 for pocket size reading.

For me the page turn buttons are essential and if the 350 had a button that turned the touch screen on and off it would have been perfect, but I found I brushed the screen too much and kept accidentally changing pages (getting rid of dog hairs mostly).

In fact if there was a touch screen on/off button I'd have bought the 650 ages ago.

I feel you'll be having less choice as I do think that more and more readers will be going touch. And IR touch is how they'll do it. So stock up now on readers without a touch and with buttons.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by ApK

You can download content to the DX for free via it's own browser. Since reading is still the primary use, the large screen alone makes any argument that it's 'low end' hard to agree with. Wifi is great, but there are still popular ereaders without any wireless at all. It hardly defines it.

This is true, but downloading on any kindle is tedious if you have to use the browser.

I have a kind of system for collecting article & distributing them to the proper device. It's almost automated -Google Reader, Instapaper, Read It Later, Flipboard and Reeder figure heavily in this process.

Basically, the KDX is old & tired. It doesn't do wifi. Its interface was not updated when the K3 interface was. It seems clear to me that it is going to be replaced.

If it weren't for the screen size, there would be not reason to buy it.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Harmon

This is true, but downloading on any kindle is tedious if you have to use the browser.

Try Calibre and it's content server.

It seems clear to me that it is going to be replaced.

Pretty safe bet, since pretty much none of these things are sold the same forever.

If it weren't for the screen size, there would be not reason to buy it.

No reason FOR YOU, perhaps.
I can't imagine anyone buying a DX if they didn't want the big screen, that seems kind of obvious, but the other features that made it popular in the first place are still there and still compelling. You put a lot of weight on wifi (so much so that you can't seem to acknowledge that many people could not care less about it) but for me, the killer feature of the Kindle was and is the free 3G. Others like the audiobook and TTS support. Still others might just like the fact that they have one click shopping with Amazon.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

I didn't realize the KDX doesn't have wifi. I figured 3G would give the same functionality, but I'm not familiar with the workings of the DX.

Wifi is much faster most of the time on my K3.

The problem I'm having is that I don't like dealing with digests of articles, but that's the most cost effective way of downloading over 3G. If the KDX had wifi, I could use free.kindle and get my articles separately, so I could move or delete them as I wished.

But if I send articles separately to the KDX, that could add up quickly. I have about a hundred articles a week I want on the KDX via Instapaper. That's 15 bucks, as opposed to 75 cents if I use digest form.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

I didn't realize the KDX doesn't have wifi. I figured 3G would give the same functionality, but I'm not familiar with the workings of the DX.

No Kindle before the 3rd generation had wifi. The functionality is similar, but wifi is usually faster, and doesn't cost Amazon for you to to use it like 3G does.
So, you can no longer get wireless firmware updates pushed over 3G, just wifi and you can't download Audible books over 3G, just wifi (or usb of course).

Amazon always had a charge for sending your kindle personal documents over 3G to your kindle.com address. Before wifi, you could have sent stuff to your free.kindle.com address, but it would just go to your computer for usb xfer. Now stuff send to your free.kindle.com will go right to a wifi connected kindle.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

In fact if there was a touch screen on/off button I'd have bought the 650 ages ago.

Easy. Using Prs+, I have bound device shutdown to holding the minus volume button. Very handy.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Easy. Using Prs+, I have bound device shutdown to holding the minus volume button. Very handy.

He means a way to disable the touch screen, not to turn off the device.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by Harmon

On the anticipated high end Kindle(s), I have to believe that you are right - these are going to be touch devices. But I don't see the point in adding page turn buttons to a device that is built around touch, unles their focus groups tell them that a significant proportion of potential customers will not buy the new EBRs without page turn buttons.

I think Amazon knows that its customers are a little bit techno-conservative. Amazon will probably try to keep everyone happy by giving us a "best of both worlds". I think most users want at least page turn buttons, but people seem quite divided on everything else.

I hope/think that Amazon understands better than most (e.g. Apple) that touch is not about being futuristic and shiny, it's about accomplishing certain things in an easier, more elegant way than a physical button. For some reading tasks, such as turning a page, I personally find buttons FAR superior to touching/swiping the screen. But for searching, navigating, etc. I would give my left leg to have a touch-capable Kindle.

But what is possible - barely - is "touch buttons" on the bezel portion of the EBR. I can imagine a kind of "margin swipe" up or down on the bezel to turn the page forward or back, using my thumb while holding the EBR. I just tried it out on my Sony 650 & it seems to be a perfectly natural move.

You might be onto something there. Most phones and tablets have touch buttons. I can't stand them, but they are probably easier to implement than a physical button. I assume they are mainly used for aesthetic reasons because they suck as buttons.

Maybe Amazon will keep the K3 and make a Kindle Touch. That way the button lovers can get the K3 (or perhaps an updated one with the same form factor) and those who prefer touch can get a KT.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

I like touch navigation - the classic Nook's method is kind of slow.

But I prefer page turn buttons by far over a page swipe motion.

Your mention of touch navigation brings up a great point that I don't think anyone has mentioned:

Touch can open up the device for more functionality and ease of use. Personal preferences aside I can't imagine anyone asserting that it is easier to use the clicky buttons to visit a footnote link halfway down the page than simply touching the little superscript number with your finger.

A touch interface could also free the Kindle to use better menus. Anything that involves the buttons on the Kindle is truly tedious (besides page turns). Give me a view of my book covers in a grid where I can touch the book I want to open. This is possible without touch, but less elegant.

I agree that I'd rather type on a physical keyboard, but I find I rarely type more than a single word for a search or a book/author title, and I only do that one in a blue moon. For me personally I can handle the compromise of an on-screen keyboard.

I think I mentioned before that I often don't bother looking up a word definition or reading a footnote because it is too tedious. With touch the Kindle pop up a definition or footnote right above my finger if I hold a touch down for a second. Elegant and useful.

Ever tried zooming a PDF on the Kindle? Or a webpage? The horror! What about pinch-zoom on a smartphone or tablet? Intuitive and effective.

As for fingerprints, I think the Kindle screen handles them well, but I can certainly see why many people don't like the idea of touching the surface they read. I personally can live with it for better functionality.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

Y I can't imagine anyone asserting that it is easier to use the clicky buttons to visit a footnote link halfway down the page than simply touching the little superscript number with your finger.

I sure can. If the little superscript number can't be hit accurately the first time, every-time, then even the Kindle's 5 way would be better.
If hitting the screen looks up a word or starts a highlight, or turns the page by accident, there's no plus at all.

Anything that involves the buttons on the Kindle is truly tedious (besides page turns). Give me a view of my book covers in a grid where I can touch the book I want to open.

I disagree. One, while I do think touch could make things less tedious in many cases, I have no need to waste screen real estate or time looking at cover pictures. I can look up the covers if I need to see a picture. The Kindle's text list and search capability makes finding a book far faster and easier than on, say, my PRS-350. I hate that 'cover flow' type stuff.

I agree that I'd rather type on a physical keyboard, but I find I rarely type more than a single word for a search or a book/author title, and I only do that one in a blue moon. For me personally I can handle the compromise of an on-screen keyboard.

The keyboard is one true all or nothing proposition. Unlike features like audio, browsers, touch, which cn all be ignored if you don't want to use them, the mere presence of keyboard is great if you want it, but can only screw up the form factor of the device if you don't.
That's going to be hard to address if a good number of customers are on each side of the keyboard issue.
I wonder if Amazon will consider this in their next move.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

Personal preferences aside I can't imagine anyone asserting that it is easier to use the clicky buttons to visit a footnote link halfway down the page than simply touching the little superscript number with your finger.

For what it's worth, people with specific disabilities will have an easier time with buttons than with touch screens.

I realize you probably weren't trying to take in that special set of consumers with your statement, but I thought I'd chime in to remind you that "anyone" is a large group and they don't all have the same user needs. Alas for those tasked with building the Perfect eReader.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

Touch can open up the device for more functionality and ease of use. Personal preferences aside I can't imagine anyone asserting that it is easier to use the clicky buttons to visit a footnote link halfway down the page than simply touching the little superscript number with your finger.

Actually, you bring up a very valid point that I was wondering about.

Yes, tapping the link to a footnote may be a little easier than navigating to the link with a joypad and clicking... maybe... but here's my question. If the ebook creator didn't create a link in the footnote back to the calling text (as they very commonly don't do), how would you get back to where you were reading, on a touch-screen reader with only page turn buttons? Is there a special "Back" swipe?

I'm genuinely curious. Because right now, if there's no return link in the footnote or appendix entry, pressing the "Back" button gets me right back to my place in the text. Quick as a wink.

It seems to me that a touch-only reader (or a reader with only two page turn buttons) could actually hinder in-book navigation--if the ebook wasn't created with the necessary links to make it easy. If I'm completely wrong and there is no issue here, then great. But otherwise, I'd rather not have to rely on the ebook producer to take care of my in-book navigation needs.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Actually, you bring up a very valid point that I was wondering about.

Yes, tapping the link to a footnote may be a little easier than navigating to the link with a joypad and clicking... maybe... but here's my question. If the ebook creator didn't create a link in the footnote back to the calling text (as they very commonly don't do), how would you get back to where you were reading, on a touch-screen reader with only page turn buttons? Is there a special "Back" swipe?

I'm genuinely curious. Because right now, if there's no return link in the footnote or appendix entry, pressing the "Back" button gets me right back to my place in the text. Quick as a wink.

It seems to me that a touch-only reader (or a reader with only two page turn buttons) could actually hinder in-book navigation--if the ebook wasn't created with the necessary links to make it easy. If I'm completely wrong and there is no issue here, then great. But otherwise, I'd rather not have to rely on the ebook producer to take care of my in-book navigation needs.

The Nook Color has a little "BACK" tab that pops up on the screen when you leap to a link...

...but it seems fussy to me. If the footnote spans more than two pages and you swipe forward to the next page, the "BACK" tab goes away, which is very annoying.

Sometimes if you tap madly -- double tab, back swiping, etc. -- the system will pop you back to the page you were on, but if there's a specific gesture that triggers it, I don't know what it is. (Wasn't included in the swiffy Nook Color tutorial video. )

I don't use the NC stock reader anymore, but my husband was using it to read a technical programming book the other day, and I kept hearing grumbles from his corner of the room every time he tried to navigate through the book links.