Cybook Gen3 e-reader in September 2007 for $350 - Page 8

JSWolf · 08-02-2007, 12:36 PM

I also bookmark the page if I find an error or a suspected error. Then I go back later when I am at my computer and reread the bookmarked page(s) and make any corrections. Granted you cannot mark the specific error, but you can save the entire page for correcting the error.

levirothschild · 08-03-2007, 07:17 AM

Hei,
Jswolf you were negative to the use of pdf. Which format would you rather use? The thing is that I have many important math books in pdf format and I intend to use the cybook to carry them with me, since all of the books are well over 300 pages each. Has anyone used math books on their e-readers, whats the experience?
Which format should one convert his books to from pdf?
Personally I hope that Cybook will manage pdf just fine, because there are alot of Prof and students who would love to use it, without any hassle!

HarryT · 08-03-2007, 07:30 AM

The problem is that PDF is a terrible format for eBooks - that's not what it was designed for, and not what it's good for.

The fundamental issue is that a PDF file is formatted for a specific page size, and (unlike "real" eBook formats) cannot "reflow" to accommodate other page sizes. An A4 PDF is "stuck" at A4, and can only sensibly be viewed on an A4 screen (or printed, which is what the format was originally intended to be used for, of course).

To view a PDF on a small screen, such as the Sony Reader, or CyBook, you have only two choices: shrink the PDF page to fit the screen of the device, or provide a way of "panning" a viewing window over the PDF page. Neither of these provides a very satisfactory experience.

What formats are better? Practically everything, to be honest. MobiPocket on the CyBook or LRF on the Sony Reader, to name but two. Anything is better than PDF as an eBook format.

There is, I should add, a recent variant of PDF which allows pages to reflow, but very few portable devices support it, and even fewer PDF documents support reflow.

If you create a PDF specifically for the page size of the reader, that's a different matter, and works very well indeed (this is what the Feedbooks web site does, for example). The problem occurs when you try to view A4 or US Letter PDFs on a device such as the Reader or the CyBook, which have only 1/6th the screen area that the document was designed to be viewed with.

ricdiogo · 08-03-2007, 07:46 AM

Well something is actually intriguing me. In the video when they talk about PDF (4:00m), one of the managers seems to say "There won't be PDF in the 1st version of the product" (4:55m). Is there any French native speaker that may help us understanding what they say? Both managers seem to get really uncomfortable when talking about PDF.

sea2stars · 08-03-2007, 09:35 AM

Unless you can't change the text size. Currently the text size on Feedbooks PDFs are just too large for me; and I think I'd much rather have these files as .lrf instead.

Hadrien · 08-03-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sea2stars

Unless you can't change the text size. Currently the text size on Feedbooks PDFs are just too large for me; and I think I'd much rather have these files as .lrf instead.

You can change the font size, the font itself and the margins.
Just press "

Custom settings" when you're on the page of the book, set the right size for you and then, you can use the "Custom PDF" link on the page for every book.

sea2stars · 08-03-2007, 10:00 AM

Merci bien de votre aide!

nekokami · 08-03-2007, 12:44 PM

Regarding PDF vs. other formats, what about for math books, as levirothschild is asking? HTML doesn't provide good formatting tools for equations. Does Mobipocket or LRF? For this kind of content, LaTex to PDF for the particular unit (i.e. the Feedbooks approach) might be the best way to go for now.

Does anyone know how well Digital Editions is supposed to handle mathematical formulae?

HarryT · 08-03-2007, 12:48 PM

Equations would have to be displayed as graphics, but that's basically what's happening in a PDF - the PDF interpreter is rendering equations graphically.

JSWolf · 08-03-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

Regarding PDF vs. other formats, what about for math books, as levirothschild is asking? HTML doesn't provide good formatting tools for equations. Does Mobipocket or LRF? For this kind of content, LaTex to PDF for the particular unit (i.e. the Feedbooks approach) might be the best way to go for now.

Does anyone know how well Digital Editions is supposed to handle mathematical formulae?

Digital Editions will be no better or worse then MobiPocket or BBeB. It's just another way to display the same thing.

And harry is correct. The mathematical formulas would work fine displayed as graphics. It's the only way to make sure they come out as they should.

Hadrien · 08-03-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Digital Editions will be no better or worse then MobiPocket or BBeB. It's just another way to display the same thing.

And harry is correct. The mathematical formulas would work fine displayed as graphics. It's the only way to make sure they come out as they should.

Maybe for maths but overall, Epub support more advanced features.

nekokami · 08-04-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Equations would have to be displayed as graphics, but that's basically what's happening in a PDF - the PDF interpreter is rendering equations graphically.

Is this true? If you zoom in on a PDF file with equations, don't you get a higher resolution? I suppose it could be a vector graphic instead of a raster graphic...

HarryT · 08-05-2007, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

Is this true? If you zoom in on a PDF file with equations, don't you get a higher resolution? I suppose it could be a vector graphic instead of a raster graphic...

That's right, yes, a PDF interpreter does vector graphics.

Most (perhaps most) PDF textbooks, however, use scanned images for their illustrations, not vector graphics.

kleykenb · 08-05-2007, 01:19 PM

In the interview there was a part about PDF , actually PDF size : the Cybook is too small to display A4 PDF comfortably because of its size but it will support PDF.
What they said was that they are planning to release another eReader next year for Business users that will be bigger and therefor will be able to display A4 size PDF's easily unlike all the currently available eReaders.

Many of us are craving for a device that is good for A4 PDF reading so I hope they will release more details about that device soon.
A4 PDF reading people appear to be a niche market, IMHO I think it's a huge niche so it's about time someone came out with a reader like that.
That said, I think Im gonna buy both a Cybook Gen3 and a Cybook Gen3 A4 ;-)

HarryT · 08-05-2007, 01:45 PM

It's good to hear that they're being "up front" about the fact that you can't sensibly read A4 PDFs on a 120x90mm screen. Sony could learn a lesson from that!

Totally agree with you that there's a market for A4 devices. I wouldn't buy one, but I know people who would.

08-03-2007, 07:17 AM	#107
levirothschild Member Posts: 11 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: none	which format? Hei, Jswolf you were negative to the use of pdf. Which format would you rather use? The thing is that I have many important math books in pdf format and I intend to use the cybook to carry them with me, since all of the books are well over 300 pages each. Has anyone used math books on their e-readers, whats the experience? Which format should one convert his books to from pdf? Personally I hope that Cybook will manage pdf just fine, because there are alot of Prof and students who would love to use it, without any hassle!

08-05-2007, 01:19 PM	#119
kleykenb Groupie Posts: 156 Karma: 99 Join Date: Jul 2007 Device: DR1kS/Cy3	In the interview there was a part about PDF , actually PDF size : the Cybook is too small to display A4 PDF comfortably because of its size but it will support PDF. What they said was that they are planning to release another eReader next year for Business users that will be bigger and therefor will be able to display A4 size PDF's easily unlike all the currently available eReaders. Many of us are craving for a device that is good for A4 PDF reading so I hope they will release more details about that device soon. A4 PDF reading people appear to be a niche market, IMHO I think it's a huge niche so it's about time someone came out with a reader like that. That said, I think Im gonna buy both a Cybook Gen3 and a Cybook Gen3 A4 ;-) Last edited by kleykenb; 08-05-2007 at 01:49 PM.

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08-02-2007, 12:36 PM	#106
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,104 Karma: 144284184 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I also bookmark the page if I find an error or a suspected error. Then I go back later when I am at my computer and reread the bookmarked page(s) and make any corrections. Granted you cannot mark the specific error, but you can save the entire page for correcting the error.

08-03-2007, 07:30 AM	#108
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The problem is that PDF is a terrible format for eBooks - that's not what it was designed for, and not what it's good for. The fundamental issue is that a PDF file is formatted for a specific page size, and (unlike "real" eBook formats) cannot "reflow" to accommodate other page sizes. An A4 PDF is "stuck" at A4, and can only sensibly be viewed on an A4 screen (or printed, which is what the format was originally intended to be used for, of course). To view a PDF on a small screen, such as the Sony Reader, or CyBook, you have only two choices: shrink the PDF page to fit the screen of the device, or provide a way of "panning" a viewing window over the PDF page. Neither of these provides a very satisfactory experience. What formats are better? Practically everything, to be honest. MobiPocket on the CyBook or LRF on the Sony Reader, to name but two. Anything is better than PDF as an eBook format. There is, I should add, a recent variant of PDF which allows pages to reflow, but very few portable devices support it, and even fewer PDF documents support reflow. If you create a PDF specifically for the page size of the reader, that's a different matter, and works very well indeed (this is what the Feedbooks web site does, for example). The problem occurs when you try to view A4 or US Letter PDFs on a device such as the Reader or the CyBook, which have only 1/6th the screen area that the document was designed to be viewed with.

08-03-2007, 07:46 AM	#109
ricdiogo Gutenberger Posts: 142 Karma: 700 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Device: Cybook Gen 3	Well something is actually intriguing me. In the video when they talk about PDF (4:00m), one of the managers seems to say "There won't be PDF in the 1st version of the product" (4:55m). Is there any French native speaker that may help us understanding what they say? Both managers seem to get really uncomfortable when talking about PDF.

08-03-2007, 09:35 AM	#110
sea2stars Zealot Posts: 104 Karma: 64 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: eb1150, Sony Reader	Unless you can't change the text size. Currently the text size on Feedbooks PDFs are just too large for me; and I think I'd much rather have these files as .lrf instead.

08-03-2007, 10:00 AM	#112
sea2stars Zealot Posts: 104 Karma: 64 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: eb1150, Sony Reader	Merci bien de votre aide!

08-03-2007, 12:44 PM	#113
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Regarding PDF vs. other formats, what about for math books, as levirothschild is asking? HTML doesn't provide good formatting tools for equations. Does Mobipocket or LRF? For this kind of content, LaTex to PDF for the particular unit (i.e. the Feedbooks approach) might be the best way to go for now. Does anyone know how well Digital Editions is supposed to handle mathematical formulae?

08-03-2007, 12:48 PM	#114
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Equations would have to be displayed as graphics, but that's basically what's happening in a PDF - the PDF interpreter is rendering equations graphically.

08-05-2007, 01:45 PM	#120
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	It's good to hear that they're being "up front" about the fact that you can't sensibly read A4 PDFs on a 120x90mm screen. Sony could learn a lesson from that! Totally agree with you that there's a market for A4 devices. I wouldn't buy one, but I know people who would.

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