Kindle e-Book piracy accelerates - from CNET

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by Richey79

Since most games don't release representative demos, many users torrent to test the single-player experience. They watch for a while, and see whether the devs and publishers update their software to fix bugs and listen to the customers, and then buy the software legitimately ( yes, that they've "already stolen" ) to support the developers who are working in the right way to further an industry they are passionate about.

an industry they are addicted to and which are going to do anything to get their fix.

Most torrent releases for video games include in their documentation sincere encouragements to buy the game if you like it.

I'm guessing the torrents are prepared by the game devs themselves?

if you read a good book, like the gamer who cares enough to find out a bit about the team who designed their game, the passionate reader feels a real link to the author who provided them with enjoyment.

the problem with this linking or bonding is that the author may never be able to express his own opinions on the risk of losing readers.

We often see authors of mindblowing works of art who are despicable human beings. The creator is not the creation, yet people are always making this wrong assumption and expecting for the author to be as flawless and charming as his creations.

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

There are plenty of pirates out there selling CD's and DVD's with pirated ebooks on them.

I've seen quite a bit of pirated material though I have yet to see a CD or DVD with ebooks on them. If what you say is accurate, and it may well be, then the people buying them are idiots when they could download all the ebooks they want for free (pirated or not) with nothing more than a 10 second google search.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

The claim that piracy exists, or even grows, in the absence of DRM does not imply that DRM does not encourage piracy....

That's nice. But for the second time, that is not what I'm saying.

"DRM discourages piracy" is a completely different claim than "DRM encourages piracy." I'm addressing the latter, not the former.

I fully agree that the evidence is far from perfect, that we can't construct perfect counterfactuals that would provide a definitive answer. (Of course, the stronger you demand such perfect evidence, the more you undercut your ability to claim that DRM does encourage piracy...)

Regardless of the problems of gathering evidence, the simple fact is that digital music has been sold both with and without DRM, and this does not appear to have had any significant effect on piracy rates. In fact, removing nearly all of the issues -- DRM, availability, convenience, middle men, pricing -- doesn't appear to reduce piracy rates.

As such, it is my opinion that ultimately the overwhelming majority of pirates just want Free Stuff. The alleged barriers are, in my opinion, far more about rationalization than genuine sources of discontent.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by silasgreenback

I'll take your word for it, but it's hard to believe anyone would pay for them.

Kind of blows the mind that someone would be willing to have unsanctioned files, know where to find a vendor that actually pirates them, and despite it all, lack the gumption to find them on their own.

At least in Sweden it is perfectly legal to buy something like a DVD with files on. But it is more problematic legally to download the same files.

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Let me spell it out for you for you.

The claim that piracy exists, or even grows, in the absence of DRM does not imply that DRM does not encourage piracy. The only way you can use an empirical study to imply that is if your study managed to magically contrast two scenarios:

1) Remove DRM, wait two years, measure change in piracy
2) Rewind time, do not remove DRM, measure change in piracy

If anyone wants to borrow my time machine to conduct this study I would be happy to let them use it for a fee.

[spellbanisher]

I must add, however, that if you want to use my time machine you must provide the magic pixie dust that makes it work. I'm all out.

[OtterBooks]

As the the sale of ebooks grows, so does the pirating of them. That shouldn't be a big surprise. The author of that article was pretty reasonable. In fact he seemed to be pretty resigned to the idea that there's not much that can be done, and was merely musing on about what it means overall. Seems understandable that an author who comes across this for the first time would want to write his thoughts on it.

I don't think ebook and music piracy are quite the same. Not only are the user demographics a bit different (or at least the personality types imo), but so are the means of consumption and available alternatives. How these differences are going to matter is anyone's guess, but I suspect that the impact will be less with ebooks.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

That's nice. But for the second time, that is not what I'm saying.

"DRM discourages piracy" is a completely different claim than "DRM encourages piracy." I'm addressing the latter, not the former.

I fully agree that the evidence is far from perfect, that we can't construct perfect counterfactuals that would provide a definitive answer. (Of course, the stronger you demand such perfect evidence, the more you undercut your ability to claim that DRM does encourage piracy...)

Regardless of the problems of gathering evidence, the simple fact is that digital music has been sold both with and without DRM, and this does not appear to have had any significant effect on piracy rates. In fact, removing nearly all of the issues -- DRM, availability, convenience, middle men, pricing -- doesn't appear to reduce piracy rates.

As such, it is my opinion that ultimately the overwhelming majority of pirates just want Free Stuff. The alleged barriers are, in my opinion, far more about rationalization than genuine sources of discontent.

Shouldn't the question be did sales go up or down after DRM was removed? If sales didn't go down why are they paying for it.

When Amazon started selling MP3's without DRM did their sales go down?

When Apple removed DRM from iTunes did their sales go down?

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by Barcey

When Apple removed DRM from iTunes did their sales go down?

No, their sales went through the roof.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Barcey

Shouldn't the question be did sales go up or down after DRM was removed? If sales didn't go down why are they paying for it.

I do agree that's a good additional question to ask.

The answer is not straightforward, but basically:
• CD sales revenues are dropping (a constant since 2000).
• Digital sales were rising regularly until last year, when it slowed down. Some believe sales have plateaued, though it may also be too early to say.
• There are some correlations between enforcement activities and lowered rates of piracy, but I don't think anyone can draw a solid conclusion from the data.

Originally Posted by Barcey

When Amazon started selling MP3's without DRM did their sales go down?

They never sold music with DRM.

Originally Posted by Barcey

When Apple removed DRM from iTunes did their sales go down?

AFAIK their rates of sales increases were consistent until last year.

Here's a WSJ article with a bit more general background on Amazon vs Apple for music downloads. It doesn't specifically address your questions, but you may find some useful info anyway: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...889536374.html

And a little more stuff....
http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/2010...-slower-sales/

http://www.cultofmac.com/report-itun...n-demand/80923

And, for those who like charts: (From the Guardian, Feb 2010)


Note, there may be numerous reasons for these sales figures, including increasing competition from Amazon, economic conditions, more money spent on iOS apps and so forth.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

• Digital sales were rising regularly until last year, when it slowed down.

Quite a few high profile music piracy websites were taken down last year, and the music industry have been going after mp3 blogs and cyberlockers quite aggressively too. Maybe that would explain the drop off in legitimate mp3 sales? If people's ability to sample music is cut off they wouldn't know what was worth buying.

[wyndslash]

Doesn't the iTunes store offer samples? And why not look up the song on YouTube? (granted there is the chance it won't be there) I remember when I was younger that there were a lot of so called mp3 request sites...

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Quite a few high profile music piracy websites were taken down last year, and the music industry have been going after mp3 blogs and cyberlockers quite aggressively too....

Well, last I checked they've been "aggressive" for years now. In fact, in the US they're less aggro than in the past; the peak was in 2005, when the RIAA was suing ordinary citizens. They stopped that in 2008, so by 2009 the number of copyright lawsuits was back at their 2004 levels.

Feel free to chew on these for awhile.
2010: http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/DMR2010.pdf
2011: http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/DMR2011.pdf

Much of it discusses legit services, and has a section on piracy. It includes references to multiple studies that indicate that "free" is a top reason why people go to P2P sources; that nations like Spain with lax IP enforcement have high piracy rates; that Sweden enacted a tough IP law (IPRED), and the following year music revenues rose for the first time in years.

[MovieBird]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Feel free to chew on these for awhile.
2010: http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/DMR2010.pdf
2011: http://www.ifpi.org/content/library/DMR2011.pdf

Much of it discusses legit services, and has a section on piracy. It includes references to multiple studies that indicate that "free" is a top reason why people go to P2P sources; that nations like Spain with lax IP enforcement have high piracy rates; that Sweden enacted a tough IP law (IPRED), and the following year music revenues rose for the first time in years.

You're kidding, right? I haven't read through the whole thing, but the cover page states "representing the recording industry worldwide", and the introduction is titled "Digital Music - 2011 is the Year When Governments Can Turn the Tide." I mean, here's a choice quote off the first page:

Originally Posted by IFPI

Many governments are now recognising the need for proportionate and effective steps to curb piracy.

Hardly a nonbiased organization. How 'bout a peer reviewed study?

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by wyndslash

And why not look up the song on YouTube?

I am sorry, how is that non-infringing, exactly?