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Old 12-20-2010, 06:51 PM   #106
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Right now, the only thing holding me to Sony is their LRF format. I read a random ePUb once in a while, and every time I consider the rendering so poor that it's completely un-book-like, unpolished, and unprofessional. And 100% fixable with absolutely minimal effort.

All I can say is: huh?

The Epubs I've read have all come through really well!
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:56 PM   #107
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And why is that... everyone I personally know doesn't give a damn about full justification as long as they can read their books, the only place that I regularly see outcries about it... is here where the hardcore commenters appear. Now if you want to use that as yet another stick to beat Sony then that's your right but don't act like it's the end of the world. I've had a 505 since it came out and I use it to read books for which it works very well for me and many other people... when it finally breaks then I'll start the feature hunt on a new range of devices. If I want a beautifully formatted, typographically fabulous, well designed and illustrated book then that's what I buy... paper. If I want to read a book wherever I am then I use my eReader(s)... and if I can read on it then it's doing its job...

Further to the justification fuss, research actually shows that Left Justification is better than Full Justification for ease of reading because it doesn't screw around with the spacing between letters/words. It was originally developed to make it easier to separate columns in newspapers and not for books... but if you prefer it then fine.
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:49 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by SeaBookGuy View Post
Right now, the only thing holding me to Sony is their LRF format. I read a random ePUb once in a while, and every time I consider the rendering so poor that it's completely un-book-like, unpolished, and unprofessional. And 100% fixable with absolutely minimal effort.

All I can say is: huh?

The Epubs I've read have all come through really well!
Check them against a Nook, and you will see there is a distinct difference in quality. Not that I recommend a Nook, as it's a pretty klunky design in comparison to the Sony.

The LRF rendering is still superior to the ePUB rendering on the Sony by a long shot, which is why I still use it.

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And why is that... everyone I personally know doesn't give a damn about full justification as long as they can read their books, the only place that I regularly see outcries about it... is here where the hardcore commenters appear. Now if you want to use that as yet another stick to beat Sony then that's your right but don't act like it's the end of the world. I've had a 505 since it came out and I use it to read books for which it works very well for me and many other people... when it finally breaks then I'll start the feature hunt on a new range of devices. If I want a beautifully formatted, typographically fabulous, well designed and illustrated book then that's what I buy... paper. If I want to read a book wherever I am then I use my eReader(s)... and if I can read on it then it's doing its job...
Indeed there have been several threads on mobileread in regards to lack of justification. If caring about quality makes someone "hardcore" then so be it.

I find it curious that you say if you want "typographically fabulous" books you "buy paper," completely forgoing the eReader. And you're using this as a counter argument against my complaint about Sony's somewhat poor record for producing/providing quality software with their hardware? That if you want something good, you stop using the Reader?

You're making my point for me, thanks.

Quote:
Further to the justification fuss, research actually shows that Left Justification is better than Full Justification for ease of reading because it doesn't screw around with the spacing between letters/words. It was originally developed to make it easier to separate columns in newspapers and not for books... but if you prefer it then fine.
Indeed, I do prefer it, and if it wasn't better, I'm curious why books use it in almost 100% of the cases.

And therein lies the rub. First, I want a book like experience from my Reader, and while LRF provides that, ePUB doesn't on the PRS-600 and earlier. Something that can be and should be easily fixed. The other issue is that there's no reason it cannot be an option. Indeed, ePUB leaves justification as an option (ADE 1.0 ignores it), and there's no reason the Reader could turn it on or off with a setting.

To get back on topic, this lack of support for previous models does effect Sony's marketing its readers. If they are depending on word-of-mouth, then they should be concerned about providing something "typographically fabulous" so you choose and/or recommend the Reader over a paper book.

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Old 12-21-2010, 08:02 PM   #109
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So how am i going to enjoy my 1910/11 leather bound, Willy Pogany illustrated Ring cycle books on any eReader? They are full of fine engravings, tipped in colour illos, calligraphic text, hand bound on hand made paper... that's what I mean by "typographically fabulous" and they're definitely not fully justified... these are books as works of art as well items to read and look at... never to be replaced by an eReader which I use for reading especially fiction and any time and place I choose.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:55 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by EatingPie View Post
Check them against a Nook, and you will see there is a distinct difference in quality. Not that I recommend a Nook, as it's a pretty klunky design in comparison to the Sony.
Interesting, because I see a LOT of customer complaints about the quality of the books on the BN.com site from customers. Mostly they complain that there are no italics, and that the em-dashes have turned into ??

This is on books that BN.com grabbed when they bought Fictionwise.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:35 PM   #111
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Interesting, because I see a LOT of customer complaints about the quality of the books on the BN.com site from customers. Mostly they complain that there are no italics, and that the em-dashes have turned into ??

This is on books that BN.com grabbed when they bought Fictionwise.
I'm not a Nook owner, but had the chance to use one both in-store and in a focus group on e-Readers. The books were presented with header and/or footers, and flowed much better in terms of margins, indentation, breaks and -- of course -- justification. Nor did they have the offensive page numbers intruding into the book's text.

Because these were features I was aware of, I didn't look for italics specifically, and don't remember seeing them rendered. I definitely did not see the evil "I don't understand that text" double-? we often see in browsers and text editors.

However, I do know that the first Nook I looked at (an unmitigated disaster) was very different from my next two experiences, a few months and almost a year later. B&N is fixing problems. Sony is not. Looks like both have some work to do, though it's too bad I see Sony as decidedly not doing that work.

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Old 12-22-2010, 01:53 PM   #112
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Nor did they have the offensive page numbers intruding into the book's text ..... B&N is fixing problems. Sony is not. Looks like both have some work to do, though it's too bad I see Sony as decidedly not doing that work.

-Pie

The intrusive page numbers are gone in the new Sonys. I guess, while the developers were sitting around gazing at their navels, that was fixed by magic?
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:48 PM   #113
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I'm not sure this was covered or not since there appears to be a lot of replies and I haven't gone through them all yet, but why did the reviewer of that article say we couldn't read books on the computer? I normally open the Reader Library, click on a book and read it right on my computer screen.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:14 PM   #114
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And we still have a functioning miniDisc recorder around here somewhere...
I still use mine daily!

I still use my PRS-505 too. I don't miss wifi since it never had it. Plus it would be too tempting to use wifi for something other than reading if it had it. I bought my wife a PRS-505 not long after I got mine. She purchased a few books and used it for a few months and haven't used it since. It's too complicated for her to get books onto it, even though she did it 2 years ago. A Kindle would be much, much better for her. She likes things simple and easy. If you see a barely used PRS-505 with a hot pink leather cover for sale you'll know my wife got a Kindle.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:24 PM   #115
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...everyone here notices. But Sony's financial commitment to the Readers just isn't a huge priority.

Sony is certainly capable of great advertisements: the PS3 ads have moved beyond awesome these days!
I think you brought up a point that can't be overlooked. How many products does Sony produce? They range from mp3 players to PS3 to computers to TV's to games to producing movies to cameras to making a Sony Reader and the list goes on. How does Sony allocate the finite amount of resources they have?

Now we look at the Amazon Kindle. How many products are produced by Amazon? Just the Kindle. Amazon is able to dedicate their limited resources to their single product and that product better be good.

So I don't think Sony is abandoning or neglecting the Sony Reader, they're just stretched too thin to dedicate all their resources into it.
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Old 12-22-2010, 05:46 PM   #116
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The intrusive page numbers are gone in the new Sonys. I guess, while the developers were sitting around gazing at their navels, that was fixed by magic?
My posts are imperative in context.

My primary expressed frustration is the lack of updates on previous revisions. Those page numbers still appear on the PRS-505 and the this year's models PRS-600 and PRS-300.

As I have already said, if Sony is relying primarily on word-of-mouth, one of the best things they can do is keep previous readers as up-to-date as possible. And a new ADE is certainly within the realm of possibility on a 2009/2010 model.

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Old 12-22-2010, 05:51 PM   #117
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I think you brought up a point that can't be overlooked. How many products does Sony produce? They range from mp3 players to PS3 to computers to TV's to games to producing movies to cameras to making a Sony Reader and the list goes on. How does Sony allocate the finite amount of resources they have?

Now we look at the Amazon Kindle. How many products are produced by Amazon? Just the Kindle. Amazon is able to dedicate their limited resources to their single product and that product better be good.

So I don't think Sony is abandoning or neglecting the Sony Reader, they're just stretched too thin to dedicate all their resources into it.
I agree here, and never meant to suggest or imply they were abandoning their Readers. The new touch screens are a sign that Sony is still very interested in this technology.

Sony's commitment to the Readers has definitely been slim, but sales aren't blockbuster, and it's totally understandable. My frustration largely arises from being a software engineer myself, and knowing that some of these problems can easily be fixed... or certainly could have been in the 2 years since the PRS-505, even with minimal investment in manpower. The cog in the gears is that they use ADE, and that's licensed AFAIK, so they don't necessarily support it in house at Sony, and that runs into a whole slew of non-technical, legal issues.

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Old 12-22-2010, 07:22 PM   #118
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I'm not a Nook owner, but had the chance to use one both in-store and in a focus group on e-Readers.
One has to assume that for a focus group the books were carefully selected.

All I know is that I see a lot of complaints from people who actually purchase from the BN.com store.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:25 PM   #119
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Just thought I'd point out that Sony is sponsoring this year's goodreads best books of the year vote.
I find a lot of the Goodreads votes are not based on what's actually best, but on fan wank. Like the best covers, Twilight was right up there in the top 10 and it's an awful cover.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:54 PM   #120
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I find a lot of the Goodreads votes are not based on what's actually best, but on fan wank. Like the best covers, Twilight was right up there in the top 10 and it's an awful cover.
What votes aren't popularity contests?

I think the point is that Sony is sponsoring things.
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