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#106 | |
Addict
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, USA
Device: Kindle 3 (wifi) + nokia n900 tablet phone
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I can say I don't really think about having "promised" to behave when I clicked on the "I agree" link in order to be able to post. What restrains me from being a total biyatch is simple manners (just as those same manners keep me from being biyatch-ey in public). For people who do cross the line and break the rules...well...I don't see them as dishonorable for breaking their word. If pressed to define it I might say they were dishonorable for being obnoxious ![]() I do understand the original point you were making about breaking a promise and if I had promised something I would have to weigh my sense of personal "want" against the shame of breaking my word before stripping DRM. My response was that I _didn't_ make that promise. I gave Amazon money and they gave me the text to assorted ebooks with miserably small covers and (occasional) nice formatting. Amazon claims I did make that promise, but only by burying it in legalese in a corner of their web site. It would be like if my teen son wrote "My mom will buy me a car for Christmas 2010. If she doesn't find and throw this letter out before that date, she agrees to the terms and conditions within" and then shoved it into a corner of his room. Even if he walked up to me and _told_ me he was doing this, it's not my job to rummage for the letter and tear it up before Christmas. I didn't make that deal (and I didn't make any silly "Only paying for a license" deal with Amazon) and I wouldn't dignify it with a response. Heck, I'm not going to validate the original intent by putting effort into refuting the "only a license" statement (just like I wouldn't validate my son's fiendish plan to get a car). I will *here* ![]() |
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#107 | |
cacoethes scribendi
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Karma: 137770742
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
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Thanks for your response. I believe that you are probably quite correct, that the smooth running of forums like these depends more on the courtesy of the participants than it does on rules "agreed" to at registration. And, having recently gone through the sign-up on Amazon just to see it, I think your analogy works all too well. At least most computer software vendors are direct enough to present the conditions at installation, much as this forum does (even if most people ignore them), they are not hidden as they seem to be at book sellers. Of course that still leaves the question of what happens after you discover the hidden rules. You say you won't dignify them with a response. I suspect that that is what Amazon presumes will happen, that people that find and dislike the "rules" will continue to purchase from them regardless. That way their rules continue to exist in case they are ever needed but they still get the income stream, even from those that don't really approve/agree with their behaviour. There is probably sufficient momentum in all this now that the current situation will continue. It's not as if a handful of people abstaining from buying from Amazon are likely to have much effect on them any more. To that extent I can see that people will consider themselves forced to continue in this way if they ever want to buy new release ebooks. |
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#108 |
Connoisseur
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Karma: 66
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: Nook
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I just managed to grab the gist of the OP and could not read any further so that's what I am responding to. Apologies if I end up repeating things others have already said.
I think the essay is stating the obvious and neglecting what's relevant. Case in point - "innocent DRM". If there is anything that Amazon and B&N have proved, it is that they are willing to use technology (specifically, file formats and DRM algorithms) for customer lock-in. So, in the real world, DRM is not so innocent at all. To worsen matters, publishers have been acting paranoid to the extent they are alienating customers. There was a recent thread about Harper Collins asking people to download the DRM'd files as they were closing down the distribution. What option do Amazon's or Harper Collins' customers have? They paid money for these books in good faith. Now they find themselves locked in (Amazon) or locked out (Harper Collins). If one were to concoct a paper book equivalent of this, it is as if you could read pbooks sold by Amazon or Harper Collins (and many others) only by putting on special glasses they sold. Nobody else made these glasses so if they went out of business or started charging a bundle for the glasses, you'd be shit out of luck reading even your not-chewed-by-your-dog pbooks. Solution: Everyone adheres to industry standards in a way that content a customer buys is accessible from any device or software. Customers must be shielded from technological obsolescence - possibly for a price. The second issue pertains to ownership and usage rights. Pbooks could be borrowed and lent. They could be bought and sold used. DRM is enabling publishers to curtail these rights. So, for prices in the same range as pbooks, a customer is not allowed to spread his costs (borrowing and lending) or recoup them (by reselling). One cannot give away an awful book or lend a particularly good one any longer (the 14 day lending is a joke). Solution: Have a netflix-like renting service for books. I know I'd be happy to pay ten bucks a month to have 1-2 books out at a time. Libraries are often restricted by the number of copies they can lend. If I know I would only read a new book once and don't want to wait for it to become available at the library, this would be a good option. The third issue pertains to pricing. Publishers are using DRM as a stick to execute an unwise pricing strategy. With the pricing of eBooks out of whack, people are encouraged to either not buy, wait or grab a copy from the darknet. Pricing of a book depends on the following factors - how early is one buying it (initial runs are hardcovers priced high), how long is the copy going to last (theoretically, a HC lasts longer than a PB), what is the demand for the book (higher demand - more valuable IP, higher price), how long has the book been on the market (the longer it has, the greater the availability of used copies and borrowable copies - from libraries or friends). These rules are not being suitably translated into the eBook world in a uniform fashion. There are cases where eBooks are priced higher than paperbacks and at times, ridiculously enough, higher than hardcovers. IP price being the same in all media, an eBook is not guaranteed to be available longer than a pbook (technological obsolescence), it is not resellable or lendable or accessible on industry standard readers. The only value proposition is portability and space saving for which one pays in the form of buying an eReader/other mobile device - repeatedly, I might remark. So, what exactly is one paying for when one pays an eBook price equal to or higher than a pbook price? Solution: Selling differently licensed eBooks. So, let's say, a book with a user restricted license costs $5 but a book with lending rights (say, lendable for a 100 day maximum) costs $10 or a family license (3 readers) goes for $12. Sellers may charge a bit extra for obsolescence protection. So, $15 says, you would have the content available to you for 20 years irrespective of technological change. The publishing and seller industry is showing a remarkable lack of foresight in dealing with customers right now. A large number of sensible readers would be happy to pay for eBooks. They want to encourage authors, they know the industry has to make profits. The question is if the authors and industry want to maintain good relations with them or loot them with impunity. Unfortunately, the current situation is closer to the latter. I hope it changes for the sake of everyone involved. |
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#109 |
Fanatic
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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The flaw I see in your proposal is this: how do I know it's worth lending until I've read it? It might be great; it might be a stinker.
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#110 |
King of the Bongo Drums
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Karma: 5927225
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Excelsior! (Strange...)
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#111 |
Connoisseur
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: Nook
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Book samples are not going anywhere and this is more of a see what sticks exercise. Who knows - the publishers might settle on no user only licenses but a cheap lend for 45 days license.
The point is that, at this time, they are not making any efforts to offer suitable substitutes for the pbook experience. That needs to change. |
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#112 |
cacoethes scribendi
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Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
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Oh, I don't know. As much as people here are complaining about DRM, many still seem more inclined to support it by paying for it, even if they intend to remove it later. I'd really like to work out a trick like that, to have people give me money for something they don't like and don't want. I'm sure I could find suitable product.
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#113 | |
Guru
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
Device: Pocketbook Basic 613
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Last edited by rogue_librarian; 12-03-2010 at 02:32 AM. |
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#114 | ||
cacoethes scribendi
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Karma: 137770742
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
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#115 | |
Guru
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Europe
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As I've said, consumers are willing to put up with it under certain circumstances, but the fact remains that it takes away from the product, makes it less usable than it would otherwise be. It's "defective by design", as it has been so eloquently put, and it never ever benefits the consumer.
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#116 | |
cacoethes scribendi
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Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
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![]() Sure some people feel that they "put up with it", but by giving in and purchasing anyway they do "support" the business decision to sell with DRM. (They support it in the only way that means anything to a commercial entity: with their decision to buy - that is their vote.) The business will never know how reluctant the purchase was (nor care much I should think, as long as they get their money). Where is their incentive to do anything about it if people will buy regardless? At the moment they win both ways. They get whatever advantage DRM offers them from those that buy through ignorance AND they still get the sales from those that know better but can't help themselves. |
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#117 | |
King of the Bongo Drums
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: Excelsior! (Strange...)
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#118 |
Fanatic
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If stripping DRM is illegal, how is it that CNET sells such a tool?
Last edited by poohbear_nc; 12-04-2010 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Link removed by MobileRead Moderation team. |
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#119 | |
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Oasis
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The people selling the tool have registered their domain with godaddy.com (just over a year ago). Their email goes to a gmail address. Their website & files for download seem to be hosted on a server in Absecom, New Jersey, USA. Oddly, following the payment link leads to a page showing the price in Canadian Dollars, so it's possible they're Canadians. I don't think that de-drm software distribution is illegal in Canada. But given Dimitri Skylarov's experience, I think that if they are Canadians they'll need to be very cautious about visiting the US... |
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#120 | |
Is that a sandwich?
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Nook Glowlight Plus
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Registrant: Kevin Pan 2250 Kennedy RD apt 1503 Scarborough, Ontario M1T3G7 Canada And a ping (if I did this correctly) does go to Absecon, NJ which is just outside Atlantic City. An area where Canadians do visit during the summer. Last edited by Fbone; 12-04-2010 at 03:35 PM. |
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Would you buy an e-book with DRM? | dpapathanasiou | General Discussions | 109 | 07-31-2010 08:48 AM |
Diesel eBooks DRM simulator - "try before you buy" | Alexander Turcic | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 1 | 03-16-2005 01:30 PM |
Why you should read e-books... and why you won't (essay) | Alexander Turcic | News | 0 | 02-14-2005 10:59 AM |
Essay: The Future of E-Books | Colin Dunstan | News | 2 | 11-10-2004 07:09 AM |