You don't matter - and you never did - Page 8

leebase · 11-24-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankh

In addition, there is a very, very, very "strange" quality introduced by the arrival of ebook.

The publisher never-ever runs out of supply, it is endless. The initial investment lasts forever (no reprint costs, no worries about the quantity). No stock. The only risk is the one associated with the initial investment (will this sell, or not).

I agree. No more "out of print". No "used ebooks" aftermarket.

Lee

jgaiser · 11-24-2010, 11:15 AM

Come on, Lady Fitz... This whole thread is dead. It's another never-ending, us against them, religious debate that never resolves anything.

It started with a rant and deteriorated to what it is now.

Lady Fitzgerald · 11-24-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

I agree. No more "out of print". No "used ebooks" aftermarket.

Lee

What is your problem with the used after market? Have you never bought a used car? Have you only bought new houses? Or do you rent? If so, wouldn't that be just as bad as using a library (they aren't free, your taxes pay the rent)?

Lady Fitzgerald · 11-24-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Come on, Lady Fitz... This whole thread is dead. It's another never-ending, us against them, religious debate that never resolves anything.

It started with a rant and deteriorated to what it is now.

Then why are you posting, helping to keep it alive?

Angst · 11-24-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

But such folks NEVER mattered when it came to new release book pricing. Never did before, still don't now. What matters in new release pricing is what the top line market is willing to pay. For them, ebooks at $12.99 to $14.99 still represent cost savings, it's still a lot cheaper than new release hard backs.

For those who NEVER thought books were worth $20 or more....your opinions on new release ebooks simply won't matter to the publishers. Never did before, still don't now.

Lee

The individual consumer is fighting back. Amazon reviews for books where the ebook price is higher than the pbook price are being inundated with one star reviews.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...mazon-protests

This is bound to hurt incremental sales for both the ebook and pbook. The publisher may not care what I think, but if a lot of people think the same way as I do, and vote with their reviews, it will hurt the publisher, and books sales. Value for $ is an integral, valid and legitimate component of any review.

boxcorner · 11-24-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angst

... Value for $ is an integral, ...

If you want to kill off this thread, introducing calculus into the discussion is probably as good a way as any.

DiapDealer · 11-24-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

The individual consumer is fighting back. Amazon reviews for books where the ebook price is higher than the pbook price are being inundated with one star reviews.

I have no love for the publishing industry... and I don't like to see ebooks priced higher than pbacks either, but the one-star review campaign pisses me off to no end.

Quote:

Value for $ is an integral, valid and legitimate component of any review.

It certainly is, but if you haven't purchased (or read) the book in question... you are completely ignoring the "value" portion of your own equation -- and hence negates your ability to review the product properly.

Flood the publisher with your angry emails, but don't disrespect the author with negatives reviews of books you didn't read. It's stupid and misplaced.

tompe · 11-24-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Come on, Lady Fitz... This whole thread is dead. It's another never-ending, us against them, religious debate that never resolves anything.

It started with a rant and deteriorated to what it is now.

Deteriorated? It got better. It makes a point that a lot of people here at MR needs to understand so we can get rid of all the threads complaining in an uninformed way about the price.

Mare of Earth · 11-24-2010, 11:53 AM

I used to buy hardcovers from my favorite authors the moment the book was released - the most recent example being JK Rowling's Harry Potter and The Deathly Hollows. I was happy to pay for the book, because I wanted to read it enough to pay for the book.

Currently I want to read Mercedes Lackey's Intrigues. I have not yet purchased this book, as ebook price for it is $12.99, while the hardcover price from Amazon is $14.55. A whopping $1.56 price difference. I don't want a physical book - I haven't purchased a physical fiction book in years. However, I also don't wish to pay near-hardcover price for a cheaper, much more limited product. I can't lend it to my mom, or donate it, or give it to a friend. I can't sell it used after I have read it.

So, I wait for the price to go down to something I am willing to pay for. That is my choice as a consumer. If it never goes down, then I will probably never buy it.

It would be a different matter if I was purchasing the book directly from Mercedes Lackey - that would be supporting art. This mess with publishers just supports middlemen.

tompe · 11-24-2010, 12:14 PM

[QUOTE=Mare of Earth;1233846
Currently I want to read Mercedes Lackey's Intrigues. I have not yet purchased this book, as ebook price for it is $12.99, while the hardcover price from Amazon is $14.55. A whopping $1.56 price difference. I don't want a physical book - I haven't purchased a physical fiction book in years. However, I also don't wish to pay near-hardcover price for a cheaper, much more limited product. I can't lend it to my mom, or donate it, or give it to a friend. I can't sell it used after I have read it.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, DRM makes a book not worth so much for a lot of people. So that is a valid argument. A paper book is much more limited then an ebook with respect to how much space it consumes and how easy it is to search the text.

Kevin2960 · 11-24-2010, 12:23 PM

I still say this whole thread is just Leebase having a good old laugh deliberately stirring up muck ... best strategy ... IGNORE him completely !

Ankh · 11-24-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

I agree.

Do you, now?

Let me refer to the recent interview with John B. Thompson where he introduced "the big book" as the essential goal of the big publishing houses of today.

I will agree with you that I don't matter. What does, however, matter is that piracy is going directly after the throat of "the big book". The pricing, the choices of whom and how to sell, is, without any doubt, the business of each and every publishing house. The choice what to read, and at which price, is mine.

What I strongly disagree with is your application of past experiences to the new situation. I believe that ebook is "disruptive technology", the one that will redefine everything related to books, force the substantial changes that will affect all involved. That there will be blood on the floor, that at least one big name from the publishing industry will perish by the time that we finish this transition to predominantly digital content delivery and distribution.

I couldn't care less for the analogies with the hardcover editions. Ebook is completely different product and I draw no analogies when I am deciding what is "the reasonable price" (tm) that I am willing to pay for it.

Nexutix · 11-24-2010, 12:58 PM

Finally at Lee,
It is better to carry 4kg bulky books around the college campus than 200gm reader; isn't it?

(Don't tell me to tear the books in parts)

Worldwalker · 11-24-2010, 01:24 PM

So now you've changed it to "new release books"?

It doesn't matter. The bottom line is still total sales: If a publisher can sell 100 books for $20 or 500 books for $10 or 5,000 books for $5, everybody but the publishers (who have formed a combination in restraint of trade) and their supporters (astroturfing surprises us at this point?) can see where their money lies. The fact that they'd rather leave money on the table than change their obsolete business model, or force through laws saying all cars must carry buggy whips, doesn't change that.

Look at Baen: If you want an unproofed galley so you can read a book months before anyone else does, you buy the advance reader copy. If you want an ebook the day the hardcover comes out, you buy the regular ebook. If you want to read the backlist, there's the Baen Free Library. Interestingly enough, Baen has gone from an also-ran to, among other things, the leading publisher of hardcover SF. Despite, I might note, selling cheap, DRM-free, multi-format ebooks. There just might be something to this whole "sell what the market wants to buy" thing, instead of "make the market buy what you want to sell."

tompe · 11-24-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Look at Baen: If you want an unproofed galley so you can read a book months before anyone else does, you buy the advance reader copy. If you want an ebook the day the hardcover comes out, you buy the regular ebook. If you want to read the backlist, there's the Baen Free Library. Interestingly enough, Baen has gone from an also-ran to, among other things, the leading publisher of hardcover SF. Despite, I might note, selling cheap, DRM-free, multi-format ebooks. There just might be something to this whole "sell what the market wants to buy" thing, instead of "make the market buy what you want to sell."

They are a-typical as has been explained in other threads. What works for them will not automatically work for other kind of entities.

11-24-2010, 11:53 AM	#114
Mare of Earth Leaver of Hoofmarks Posts: 207 Karma: 24077 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Alabama Device: Kindle Scribe, Kindle Paperwhite 4	I used to buy hardcovers from my favorite authors the moment the book was released - the most recent example being JK Rowling's Harry Potter and The Deathly Hollows. I was happy to pay for the book, because I wanted to read it enough to pay for the book. Currently I want to read Mercedes Lackey's Intrigues. I have not yet purchased this book, as ebook price for it is $12.99, while the hardcover price from Amazon is $14.55. A whopping $1.56 price difference. I don't want a physical book - I haven't purchased a physical fiction book in years. However, I also don't wish to pay near-hardcover price for a cheaper, much more limited product. I can't lend it to my mom, or donate it, or give it to a friend. I can't sell it used after I have read it. So, I wait for the price to go down to something I am willing to pay for. That is my choice as a consumer. If it never goes down, then I will probably never buy it. It would be a different matter if I was purchasing the book directly from Mercedes Lackey - that would be supporting art. This mess with publishers just supports middlemen. Last edited by Mare of Earth; 11-24-2010 at 11:56 AM.

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11-24-2010, 11:15 AM	#107
jgaiser Omnivorous Posts: 3,283 Karma: 27978909 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rural NW Oregon Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle Fire HD, Kindle 3, KPW1	Come on, Lady Fitz... This whole thread is dead. It's another never-ending, us against them, religious debate that never resolves anything. It started with a rant and deteriorated to what it is now.

11-24-2010, 12:14 PM	#115
tompe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,452 Karma: 7185064 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Linköpng, Sweden Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW	[QUOTE=Mare of Earth;1233846 Currently I want to read Mercedes Lackey's Intrigues. I have not yet purchased this book, as ebook price for it is $12.99, while the hardcover price from Amazon is $14.55. A whopping $1.56 price difference. I don't want a physical book - I haven't purchased a physical fiction book in years. However, I also don't wish to pay near-hardcover price for a cheaper, much more limited product. I can't lend it to my mom, or donate it, or give it to a friend. I can't sell it used after I have read it. [/QUOTE] Yes, DRM makes a book not worth so much for a lot of people. So that is a valid argument. A paper book is much more limited then an ebook with respect to how much space it consumes and how easy it is to search the text.

11-24-2010, 12:23 PM	#116
Kevin2960 YODA's Uglier Twin Posts: 974 Karma: 6295251 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK Device: PRS-600 and 2 Kindle 3's - and now a K4 + HTC Desire HD	I still say this whole thread is just Leebase having a good old laugh deliberately stirring up muck ... best strategy ... IGNORE him completely !

11-24-2010, 12:58 PM	#118
Nexutix Reading and reading Posts: 582 Karma: 8250144 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Infibeam Pi, iPod Touch 4G, iPad Air 2, iPad mini 2, Oneplus One	Finally at Lee, It is better to carry 4kg bulky books around the college campus than 200gm reader; isn't it? (Don't tell me to tear the books in parts)

11-24-2010, 01:24 PM	#119
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	So now you've changed it to "new release books"? It doesn't matter. The bottom line is still total sales: If a publisher can sell 100 books for $20 or 500 books for $10 or 5,000 books for $5, everybody but the publishers (who have formed a combination in restraint of trade) and their supporters (astroturfing surprises us at this point?) can see where their money lies. The fact that they'd rather leave money on the table than change their obsolete business model, or force through laws saying all cars must carry buggy whips, doesn't change that. Look at Baen: If you want an unproofed galley so you can read a book months before anyone else does, you buy the advance reader copy. If you want an ebook the day the hardcover comes out, you buy the regular ebook. If you want to read the backlist, there's the Baen Free Library. Interestingly enough, Baen has gone from an also-ran to, among other things, the leading publisher of hardcover SF. Despite, I might note, selling cheap, DRM-free, multi-format ebooks. There just might be something to this whole "sell what the market wants to buy" thing, instead of "make the market buy what you want to sell."

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