Man Booker Prize shortlist announced

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Ea

The original talking point was whether or not it was right for women to have a literary prize where only they could be considered eligible for nominations.

Well actually, the original talking point was the announcement of the Booker short-list, then 10 posts in Harry took a pop at the Orange Prize for being women only.

[GERGE]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

So, what did you think of Emma Donoghue's Room?

It was a good book, kind of scary to read too. I think it has a chance. Among the three I read, Skippy Dies was the best one for me.

I want to read one more book from the shortlist (actually I want to read them all but time and money disagrees). What do you recommend?

[Ea]

Originally Posted by TGS

Well actually, the original talking point was the announcement of the Booker short-list, then 10 posts in Harry took a pop at the Orange Prize for being women only.

Good point Thank you, I let myself get distracted

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Ea

I believe you're trying to divert attention in the discussion by drawing the race-card.

I was responding to TGS' post; whilst disassociating myself from the terminology used - I don't believe that can be described as 'drawing the race-card'.

Originally Posted by Ea

Let's re-phrase what TGS* said: Power and money are controlled by - to a higher degree than other socio-cultural groups - male members of the species Homo sapiens of primarily Caucasian descent.

Debatable these days I believe, there are very influential power-blocks in the Middle East and Asia.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is a thorny problem. Would the same people who accept that a women-only publisher is OK equally believe that a white-only publisher was also OK?

They aren't equivalent situations.

One is working against discrimination & oppression by giving attention to a marginalized group. The other is supporting a habit of exclusion whose roots are firmly in the notion that some groups of people are inherently better and more worthy than others.

Why would a publisher declare itself White-only?

There are publishers that only publish books by women, or books by people of color, or books by queer authors, or books by Muslims. They do so because these voices have traditionally been excluded from publication, and while some progress has been made, we've not reached anything resembling equal representation.

What *possible* logic could explain a publisher refusing books from all non-White authors? Does the public lack access to White voices? Are they being marginalized and ignored? How could a policy of "Whites only" be anything other than racist?

The argument, "they can do it so I should be allowed to, too!" is suitable for children on a playground--who meet as peers. In publishing, different groups don't all meet as peers; some are more excluded from every stage of the process. Attempting to compensate for the disadvantages inflicted on some groups is not the same as discrimination against the privileged group.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

They aren't equivalent situations.

<snipped for brevity>

Thank you for being so eloquent and measured, and saying what I couldn't find the words to say.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Ea

Thank you for being so eloquent and measured, and saying what I couldn't find the words to say.

Elfwreck is very good at this isn't he! English is his best

[Ea]

Originally Posted by TGS

Elfwreck is very good at this isn't he! English is his best

Definitely.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by TGS

Elfwreck is very good at this isn't he! English is his best

Elf's a she. I'm always amused when I'm taken for a man online, because nobody makes that mistake in person. (5'1". Large chest. Waist-length hair. I got that earth-mother-hippie look *down.*)

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Elf's a she. I'm always amused when I'm taken for a man online, because nobody makes that mistake in person. (5'1". Large chest. Waist-length hair. I got that earth-mother-hippie look *down.*)

I knew With your politics and the fan fiction thing and the gay fiction thing there was no doubt

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Elf's a she. I'm always amused when I'm taken for a man online, because nobody makes that mistake in person. (5'1". Large chest. Waist-length hair. I got that earth-mother-hippie look *down.*)

Sorree (But I'm going to claim the moral high ground for not assuming you were a woman given your politics and literary interests )

[Ea]

Originally Posted by TGS

(But I'm going to claim the moral high ground for not assuming you were a woman given your politics and literary interests )

And that'll leave me where...? Hm?

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Ea

And that'll leave me where...? Hm?

Sorree - didn't want to make you feel bad, (unless that's what it costs to make me feel OK - I am a bloke after all )

[Ea]

Originally Posted by TGS

Sorree - didn't want to make you feel bad, (unless that's what it costs to make me feel OK - I am a bloke after all )

LOL - you must be

[beppe]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Elf's a she. I'm always amused when I'm taken for a man online, because nobody makes that mistake in person. (5'1". Large chest. Waist-length hair. I got that earth-mother-hippie look *down.*)

Originally Posted by Ea

I knew With your politics and the fan fiction thing and the gay fiction thing there was no doubt

Originally Posted by TGS

Sorree (But I'm going to claim the moral high ground for not assuming you were a woman given your politics and literary interests )

Originally Posted by Ea

And that'll leave me where...? Hm?

Originally Posted by TGS

Sorree - didn't want to make you feel bad, (unless that's what it costs to make me feel OK - I am a bloke after all )

Originally Posted by Ea

LOL - you must be

Children, you are a riot.

I knew all along that our Elfwreck (hi Elfwreck how are you? your mind is quite sharp, a pleasure to read your posts) is a she, and assisting to your mental calisthenics has been quite funny.
I go back to my point: let's forget about gender. And to Elfwreck's point that I read as: instead of closing let's all work toward opening.