are you participating in the 9.99 boycott? - Page 7

J. Strnad · 07-10-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

As with covers, though, Jan, cover price can be misleading. I'd rather pay twenty bucks for a masterpiece of the writing and story-telling craft than waste ten hours' precious recreational reading time on a free or $0.99 piece of nonsense. Your own Risen, for instance, humbly priced as it was, paid me back every time I turned a page. That, I consider, is value for money. And it would have been at several times the price. Hoots. Neil

Okay, I'll raise the price on Risen to $25. Thanks for the tip!

Seriously, pricing is an interesting mental exercise. As you say, a good read is worth more, and I've said before on this forum that the main investment people make in an author's book is their time.

But, not everyone values a book the same, we come from various economic classes, finances vary from week to week, etc. So how do you figure out how much a book is worth?

I would never choose to read a bad book because it was cheap, but I've also spent $30 on a book and hated it. And many of the very best books are free...because they're in the public domain!

When I run out of good books in the under-$10 category, I'll start looking at the $12.99, $14.99, etc. stuff. But I have to have a pretty compelling reason to spend that much now.

neilmarr · 07-10-2010, 02:32 PM

Point well made and well taken, Jan. Of course, if everyone was to work by my system, we'd only pay in retrospect according to perceived value. Give you a hundred bucks for another first-time read of Treasure Island or 1984, but I wouldn't give Dan Brown's and Steve King's latest offerings more than five minutes of my time. And, even then, I'd demand at least four minutes back as a refund. Hoots. Neil

harryE123 · 07-11-2010, 10:28 AM

We should boycott their greedy asses to the hilt, they should be offering a $1 ebook copy with every print book, there is no rational under the sun than greed ( because they eventually want to become software companies churning out tons of almost cost free books at the push of a button, all digital) that a person who appreciates a printed library has to pay almost double for the privilege of occasionally reading their content digitally or for portability.

Get this in your head people and boycott these guys until they learn, and they only learn when their pockets take a hit.

neilmarr · 07-11-2010, 01:13 PM

With you just a bit there, Harry. But with ebooks now hitting treebook profits to an extent, some fixed overheads must be shared by the two presentation platforms.

I agree that ebooks should be hugely cheaper than their paper alternatives for reasons we all know. My own wee house has a fixed price of $5.99 (representing usually about half or a third of treebook price) because print cover price is carefully calculated on page count and resulting print cost. We don't have the same costing restraints with ebooks.

Whether the book is 250 pages or 500, the difference in production cost is zero (apart from extra editorial and technical time in-house). Sleep safe. I really do believe the major houses will cotton on to this before long and price accordingly. Competition will force that as the market becomes bigger and more savvy.

And, just as an aside, I don't think publishers should be so mean with author royalties when it comes to ebooks. Because production and distribution is so low, there is no excuse for anything less than 40%, even from a full-service publisher like us.

Cheers. Neil

harryE123 · 07-11-2010, 01:34 PM

For sure Neil.

catsittingstill · 07-12-2010, 06:27 PM

Hmmm.

I don't precisely boycott. But for me $10.00 is the point at which a book no longer has a hope of being an impulse buy.

For a recently released book by an author I *really* like (Lois McMaster Bujold, say), I'm willing to pay oh, maybe as much as 15$. Maybe even more (though never more than the hardback). This is comparable to me buying the hardback because I can't wait for the paperback to come out, and I think about it for a few days. If I forget about it in that time, oh well. Lost sale. Maybe I'll remember in time for the paperback.

If it's available in hardback but is not an author I swoon for, then the 9.99 price point is about my limit. If I'm feeling flush, my impulse buy limit is set about here.

If the paperback is out, I won't pay more than the paperback price. Why should I? I can just order the paperback instead.

Now, that said, I *do* recognize the information in the book file as having value, and the fact that it can (theoretically) be copied for free does not change the fact that it is valuable, as far as I'm concerned. If the value of the book were in its paper and ink, I would pay just as much for a blank book as for _Cryoburn_, (hint--this is not going to happen).

When I'm buying an e-book I'm buying the information from a paper book. The fact that it weighs nothing and takes almost no space is an advantage--the fact that the file is easily corrupted and might not be readable on my next gadgets is a disadvantage, and for me the right price point is a few dollars cheaper than the cheapest paper edition. But I can't afford to buy many hardbacks, and I can't afford to buy many $10+ books either.

drofgnal · 07-20-2010, 09:42 AM

I was looking up Follet's works. Pillars of the Earth is coming as a mini series on Starz. I've read it and the sequel World without end. I'll probably want to reread so I looked them up on Amazon.

Pillars was 6.99, typical paperback price. World without end was a wopping 17.99? This is absolute gouging by Penguin, the publisher who set the price. The book has been out over a year and I bought the hardback before I had a kindle for around that with the typical B&N 30% off. I was ready to buy both for 6.99, but left with neither.

I also noticed that his upcoming epic Fall of Giants is a whopping 19.99??!! That may actually be more than the hardback with the typical 30% off.

I've added Follet and all of Penguin publishing to my DNR (do not read) list.

Granvillen · 07-20-2010, 10:13 AM

What boycott? Read Amazon's report. All ebooks are out selling hardcovers in both volume and pricing. Boycott, shoycott! I buy what I want to read. If the cost is too high, then I find something else. But, I do that on everything. That is not a boycott, it is common sense. The world is going to pot, and there are 8 pages worrying about 9.99 or 12.99.

AnemicOak · 07-20-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drofgnal

Pillars was 6.99, typical paperback price. World without end was a wopping 17.99? This is absolute gouging by Penguin, the publisher who set the price. The book has been out over a year and I bought the hardback before I had a kindle for around that with the typical B&N 30% off. I was ready to buy both for 6.99, but left with neither.

Hopefully the price of World Without End will drop next week when it comes out in paperback.

drofgnal · 07-20-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Hopefully the price of World Without End will drop next week when it comes out in paperback.

Still have to deal with Fall of Giants being 19.99. I'll pass on that one for sure.

neilmarr · 07-20-2010, 10:32 AM

Can't remember now where I bought it (certainly a legitimate source), but I'm sure I paid around ten bucks for *World Without End* some time last year or early this year. It's certainly well worth paying a reasonable ebook cover price of ten or twelve dollars for, but not something daft. Cheers. Neil

AnemicOak · 07-20-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drofgnal

Still have to deal with Fall of Giants being 19.99. I'll pass on that one for sure.

Yeah, I wouldn't pay that either I'm sure some folks will though. Curious where you saw the price as I can't find the book at any ebook seller. Of course the way things have been going the price could change six times between now and the end of September when it comes out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Can't remember now where I bought it (certainly a legitimate source), but I'm sure I paid around ten bucks for *World Without End* some time last year or early this year. It's certainly well worth paying a reasonable ebook cover price of ten or twelve dollars for, but not something daft. Cheers. Neil

Yeah, it was cheaper most places before the Agency 5 cartel got their hands into things.

drofgnal · 07-20-2010, 11:59 AM

The 19.99 for fall of giants I saw in the ibooks store as available for preorder, I'm sure amazon will be the same once they list it. Penguin sets the price.

AnemicOak · 07-20-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drofgnal

The 19.99 for fall of giants I saw in the ibooks store as available for preorder, I'm sure amazon will be the same once they list it. Penguin sets the price.

Well, if they leave it that high it'd be interesting to see how well it does. They won't be selling me a copy at that price.

GreenMonkey · 07-21-2010, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

***Are a few people on an internet forum really going to make enough of a dent that publishers will notice?***

The journey of a thousand miles, Brian, starts with a single step. There are 50,000+ of us here (all established ebook customers) and -- the internet being viral -- we certainly can make a difference.

Don't think for a moment that the guys in ties aren't keeping tabs on what's being discussed in huge and influential forums like MR. Mind you, I've never been accused of living in the real world. Worth a try, though, eh? Vote with PayPal or any major credit card.

Much as it hurts in the short term, don't buy DRM or overpriced ebooks ... and tell your friends that you'll kill their children (and/or household pets) if they don't follow your lead.

Hoots. Neil

I'm an anti-DRM guy too. I'm on the e-reader train as of this last month. But it's for the freebie offers, old copyright expired books, and an occasional cheap history book for school that has zero resale. I prefer real books with the no DRM, that you can loan out or resell at will. Like you should be able to - it's YOUR property!

And as it is I remove the DRM from them. It's a principle thing. I don't like the erosion of property rights. I notice kids are growing up and totally buy the "I didn't buy this, I bought a license to use it however they let me". So it's working on the younger generation.

If they removed the DRM I'd have to start seriously considering e-books. For now, I'm not paying more than a buck or two for a DRM-infected book, and even that feels like it's against my principles...but I tolerate rental price for DRM protected videogames also...

07-20-2010, 09:42 AM	#97
drofgnal Wizard Posts: 1,403 Karma: 10519918 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Ipad Pro/Kindle Oasis 3/iPhone 13 Pro Max	World Without End I was looking up Follet's works. Pillars of the Earth is coming as a mini series on Starz. I've read it and the sequel World without end. I'll probably want to reread so I looked them up on Amazon. Pillars was 6.99, typical paperback price. World without end was a wopping 17.99? This is absolute gouging by Penguin, the publisher who set the price. The book has been out over a year and I bought the hardback before I had a kindle for around that with the typical B&N 30% off. I was ready to buy both for 6.99, but left with neither. I also noticed that his upcoming epic Fall of Giants is a whopping 19.99??!! That may actually be more than the hardback with the typical 30% off. I've added Follet and all of Penguin publishing to my DNR (do not read) list.

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07-10-2010, 02:32 PM	#92
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	Point well made and well taken, Jan. Of course, if everyone was to work by my system, we'd only pay in retrospect according to perceived value. Give you a hundred bucks for another first-time read of Treasure Island or 1984, but I wouldn't give Dan Brown's and Steve King's latest offerings more than five minutes of my time. And, even then, I'd demand at least four minutes back as a refund. Hoots. Neil

07-11-2010, 10:28 AM	#93
harryE123 Banned Posts: 272 Karma: 70 Join Date: Dec 2008 Device: irex reader	We should boycott their greedy asses to the hilt, they should be offering a $1 ebook copy with every print book, there is no rational under the sun than greed ( because they eventually want to become software companies churning out tons of almost cost free books at the push of a button, all digital) that a person who appreciates a printed library has to pay almost double for the privilege of occasionally reading their content digitally or for portability. Get this in your head people and boycott these guys until they learn, and they only learn when their pockets take a hit.

07-11-2010, 01:13 PM	#94
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	With you just a bit there, Harry. But with ebooks now hitting treebook profits to an extent, some fixed overheads must be shared by the two presentation platforms. I agree that ebooks should be hugely cheaper than their paper alternatives for reasons we all know. My own wee house has a fixed price of $5.99 (representing usually about half or a third of treebook price) because print cover price is carefully calculated on page count and resulting print cost. We don't have the same costing restraints with ebooks. Whether the book is 250 pages or 500, the difference in production cost is zero (apart from extra editorial and technical time in-house). Sleep safe. I really do believe the major houses will cotton on to this before long and price accordingly. Competition will force that as the market becomes bigger and more savvy. And, just as an aside, I don't think publishers should be so mean with author royalties when it comes to ebooks. Because production and distribution is so low, there is no excuse for anything less than 40%, even from a full-service publisher like us. Cheers. Neil

07-11-2010, 01:34 PM	#95
harryE123 Banned Posts: 272 Karma: 70 Join Date: Dec 2008 Device: irex reader	For sure Neil.

07-12-2010, 06:27 PM	#96
catsittingstill Guru Posts: 643 Karma: 551634 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle 1.0.8, iPod Touch, Kindle Keyboard	Hmmm. I don't precisely boycott. But for me $10.00 is the point at which a book no longer has a hope of being an impulse buy. For a recently released book by an author I really like (Lois McMaster Bujold, say), I'm willing to pay oh, maybe as much as 15$. Maybe even more (though never more than the hardback). This is comparable to me buying the hardback because I can't wait for the paperback to come out, and I think about it for a few days. If I forget about it in that time, oh well. Lost sale. Maybe I'll remember in time for the paperback. If it's available in hardback but is not an author I swoon for, then the 9.99 price point is about my limit. If I'm feeling flush, my impulse buy limit is set about here. If the paperback is out, I won't pay more than the paperback price. Why should I? I can just order the paperback instead. Now, that said, I do recognize the information in the book file as having value, and the fact that it can (theoretically) be copied for free does not change the fact that it is valuable, as far as I'm concerned. If the value of the book were in its paper and ink, I would pay just as much for a blank book as for _Cryoburn_, (hint--this is not going to happen). When I'm buying an e-book I'm buying the information from a paper book. The fact that it weighs nothing and takes almost no space is an advantage--the fact that the file is easily corrupted and might not be readable on my next gadgets is a disadvantage, and for me the right price point is a few dollars cheaper than the cheapest paper edition. But I can't afford to buy many hardbacks, and I can't afford to buy many $10+ books either.

07-20-2010, 10:13 AM	#98
Granvillen Enthusiast Posts: 38 Karma: 30 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Alameda, Ca Device: Kindle2i., K3	What boycott? Read Amazon's report. All ebooks are out selling hardcovers in both volume and pricing. Boycott, shoycott! I buy what I want to read. If the cost is too high, then I find something else. But, I do that on everything. That is not a boycott, it is common sense. The world is going to pot, and there are 8 pages worrying about 9.99 or 12.99.

07-20-2010, 10:32 AM	#101
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	Can't remember now where I bought it (certainly a legitimate source), but I'm sure I paid around ten bucks for World Without End some time last year or early this year. It's certainly well worth paying a reasonable ebook cover price of ten or twelve dollars for, but not something daft. Cheers. Neil

07-20-2010, 11:59 AM	#103
drofgnal Wizard Posts: 1,403 Karma: 10519918 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Ipad Pro/Kindle Oasis 3/iPhone 13 Pro Max	The 19.99 for fall of giants I saw in the ibooks store as available for preorder, I'm sure amazon will be the same once they list it. Penguin sets the price.

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