Seriously thoughtful Unbelievable! (not allowed to show the flag)

[TGS]

Originally Posted by recluse

Okay, let's see if this clarifies the problem:
In this country you could hang
a picture of Josef Stalin,
a picture of Charles Manson, or
any Nation's flag without fear. If someone complained, you could sue them and win. Freedom.
The flag of this Nation is losing that same protection.
Thanks in part to the people who are creating the other problems brought up.
You would agree, it is kind of disturbing.

The company that owns the property has

a company policy that bans the display of flags, banners and political or religious materials.

So it appears that if you rent from this real estate company you cannot hang a picture of Stalin, Manson or the flag of any nation.

I'm not really seeing the problem here - they are not prohibiting the display of the American flag specifically, they just don't want flags or other kind of political or religious symbols, of any kind, on display.

Seems pretty sensible.

[Spoon Man]

Well, the lease does sound all well and good, but the is the lease deal infringing on our first amendment rights?

[kennyc]

This is definitely PC run amok when you can't even display a patriotic flag.

Mine flies on my front porch continously.....it's getting a bit ragged though, time for a new one!

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

I just read a book called "Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America". I really have no axe to grind with regard to American politics but some of the nonsense being spouted about Obama just seems unbelievable if you believe what people are doing. A lot of it seems to be very thinly disguised racism.

With regard to the flag thing, I think people should absolutely be able to display their national flag - why the hell not? Unfortunately, and disgracefully, in the UK the Union Jack has been hijacked by the far right (racist parties) and displaying it lends people to believe that you are one of them.

I've heard of that book and considered getting it. Worth it?

[Rich_D]

Originally Posted by Spoon Man

Well, the lease does sound all well and good, but the is the lease deal infringing on our first amendment rights?

It's only infringing if you choose to sign it. I am not a lawyer or constitutional expert, but I think that's where the loophole (so to speak) is. There are other places to live that allow the flying of flags.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by kennyc

This is definitely PC run amok when you can't even display a patriotic flag.

How about flying an "unpatriotic" flag - would that be OK too?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by recluse

That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. If you have some deep seated loathing for the flag, don't fly it. I am proud to be an American, I can fly the flag if I want to. When I want to. No harm in that. That's the price of Freedom.

But the issue is, does your neighbor have the same right to fly a Nazi Flag?

(my answer is yes, btw).

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Spoon Man

Well, the lease does sound all well and good, but the is the lease deal infringing on our first amendment rights?

First amendment rights apply to government restrictions on speech. If a property owner wrote a contract that to live in his building you must never utter the word "asparagus"-- and you sign it-- you are bound to it.

http://www.slate.com/id/2079885

Hey, this looks like it is fully readable on-line:

http://www.questia.com/library/book/...n-freedman.jsp

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Want to know what bothers me? (Probably not, but I'm going to tell you anyway.) It's not the flag burning, the flag loathing, or Sean Hannity spouting idiocy. It's hyphens -- yup, hyphens as in Polish-American, African-American, Italian-American, Mexican-American, etc.

I was born and raised in the USA; I've never lived in the land from which relatives of years past emigrated to the USA. I have no desire to live anywhere but the USA. I am an American -- no hyphens needed to say that or describe me -- for all its good and all its bad. If I don't like something, I protest in accordance with the liberties afforded me as an American and I take my protest to the ballot box; I don't pick up an assault rifle and start shooting up the neighborhood.

It really bugs me when someone who is a third-generation American calls them self xyz-American and flies the xyz flag. If it is so bad to be an American and if xyz is so much better, emigrate. Unlike many countries, America won't stop you from leaving.

This!!!

I think the whole concept causes division. Certainly all should be proud of their heritage and celebrate it whatever, but we are ALL American (well except for you ferreiners reading this ).

[Spoon Man]

It seemed to be until I tried to read the "Symbolic Speech" portion.

Ardeegee, I do believe that you are correct on that. I however I do believe that the supreme court had a ruling about certain outrageous clauses in a contract that make said contract void (such as your asparagus example). I don't have any proof of this, but I'm looking. Its just something that I think I remember from a government class I took.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

No one is more patriotic than used car dealers. They even stick American Flags on foreign cars!

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by TGS

How about flying an "unpatriotic" flag - would that be OK too?

Not really the point. The point is being free to display your flag of political or other beliefs or symbols of those beliefs. To have the freedom to do that, this is a basic principle upon which the U.S.A was founded and it is being increasingly threatened by PC and such...

[obs20]

Originally Posted by Rich_D

That's a different story than the OP.

my bad

[Ham88]

Personally I don't display the flag because I feel that the flag's most vocal proponents are those who refuse to accept that the country has done anything wrong, and refuses to accept that the US should have to apologize for these mistakes. Basically Ultra nationalists, whom I do not identify with.

On the actual issue at hand it is perfectly all right for a company to limit how you can express yourself on their property. Even if that policy seems a little silly because again if you're offended by the American flag why are you here? If merely indifferent, such as myself, it is easy enough to ignore the flag on private property, even if it is a walmart.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Do you mess with people's right to disrespectfully display it? Maybe it should be you don't mess with someone's first amendment rights.

I haven't and don't

Originally Posted by Xanthe

That's two errors - you don't read through agreements that legally bind you before you sign them, and you assume things are a "given" when they are not. If one does that, then one shouldn't be surprised when their legal contract bites them on the ass, or their assumption is proven wrong.

The flag is merely a symbol, not a holy object. Too many people misuse it to display false patriotism when their actions indicate that they have no true understanding of the basic reasons why America was founded. And some use it for intimidation purposes. I can understand why a housing authority might restrict its display. That's not to say I agree with their restrictions, only that I understand why they would do so.

once again, I've only ever lived in an apartment once. I own my home, and when living other places have simply rented a room or part of a house. I am smart enough to not live anywhere with a homeowner's agreement.

I don't believe it is false patriotism. I stand and honor the flag, cross my heart when it is presented, say the pledge when appropriate, keep it from the ground, and help people ritually destroy their flags when it is needed. I honor the flag.

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Take heart! At least some are still giving America the benefit of the doubt!

http://www.wftv.com/news/13657347/detail.html

see! now you can sleep well at night knowing that your right to run around with a burrito in your pants, dressed as captain america and grope women is protected!

Originally Posted by TGS

How about flying an "unpatriotic" flag - would that be OK too?

that's a right guaranteed in this country

Originally Posted by kennyc

But the issue is, does your neighbor have the same right to fly a Nazi Flag?

(my answer is yes, btw).

unfortunately yes, and you can burn it in protest as well and I have to stand by and defend the rights of those who do it (but you can't in Germany!)

[darknessangel]

Well, setting aside all out of context comments. I don't think the realtor is moved by being an unpatriotic terrorist linked at the same time with Osama and the dead Sadam Hussein in the afterlife and communist russians out of outter space...

I think it's more realistic that the realtor is more worried about the value of his property going down for appearing as if hicks lived there... blame ye olde capitalism. It's a little bit sad they didn't make an exception for a veteran, which I think could be done, but... you have to play the cards you're dealt.

"This policy was developed to insure that we are fair to everyone as we have many residents from diverse backgrounds," the statement read. "By having a blanket
policy of neutrality we have found that we are less likely to offend anyone and the aesthetic qualities of our apartment communities are maintained."

GJMS