Chariots Of the Gods? Anyone read it?

[HarryT]

It's interesting to note that cosmic rays were one of the first practical proofs of the phenomenon of relativistic time dilation. There are certain types of cosmic rays produced by interactions in the upper atmosphere that are very, very short-lived, but we see far more of them at ground level than we "should" do because, in our frame of reference, time is passing more slowly for the rapidly-moving particle than it is in its own reference frame, hence it takes longer to decay.

[kennyc]

Read it/them many years ago in my early 20's. All the speculation is pretty much discredited but as TGS says above I think reading books like these (Atlantis Rising, Catcher in the Rye, etc. etc.) are all great rites-of-passage!

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by rock

I like the imagination of it all, and I like the fact that someone questions the norm.

Lots of people do. The ones worth listening to are scientists (you want to write the most cited paper of the century? blow "the norm" to bits). The ones not worth listening to are crackpots. Learning to distinguish between the two is an essential skill.

Just think about the pundits who said the World was round and was chastise for it.

Name a few?

Of course this was written in 1968 and we know a lot more today then we did then, so maybe at that time it was different.

It was stupid in 1968, too.

Oh, as for why visiting aliens would have to be of a higher tech level than we are: We don't have interstellar travel at our tech level, so anyone who does is necessarily ahead of us. Probably way ahead of us.

Certainly far enough ahead of us that their researchers would be using some super-tech version of MRI scans, not anal probes. Just sayin'

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by rock

...upcoming Stephen Hawking show...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7107207.ece

I find it hard to imagine there being many raw materials on Earth that wouldn't be quicker, easier, and cheaper to harvest from comets, asteroids, and plutinoestimals (or whatever they are called this week) than down the gravity well of a planet.

[mrkarl]

yeah, it's a good classic

[rock]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Lots of people do. The ones worth listening to are scientists (you want to write the most cited paper of the century? blow "the norm" to bits). The ones not worth listening to are crackpots. Learning to distinguish between the two is an essential skill.



Name a few?



It was stupid in 1968, too.

Oh, as for why visiting aliens would have to be of a higher tech level than we are: We don't have interstellar travel at our tech level, so anyone who does is necessarily ahead of us. Probably way ahead of us.

Certainly far enough ahead of us that their researchers would be using some super-tech version of MRI scans, not anal probes. Just sayin'

Maybe I am taking the tone of your post wrong, but seriously how many times do I have to say I do not believe this and it was really said just for discussion.

But I never said visiting aliens anyway, hence why I said I will not debate if aliens visited, as it is a debate that cannot be won.

on that note, anyone see that into the universe with Stephen Hawking? He believes there are aliens, and that they might wipe us out. At least that is one of his theories.

[HarryT]

I don't think many people would seriously suggest that there are no alien civiliations out there. There are something like 300,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy, and at least the same number of galaxies. We now know that planetary systems are the norm, rather than (as was thought at one time) the exception. To suggest that we are the only planet in the entire universe which has developed intelligent life really is the most monstrous egotism.

However, whether or not interstellar communication, let alone interstellar travel, is feasible, is an entirely different question.

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

However, whether or not interstellar communication, let alone interstellar travel, is feasible, is an entirely different question.

Maybe one day people learn to use time space properly. Most likely there is no way one can mechanically achieve even speed of light, let alone more. Because speed of light is a speed of snail if you want to reach far...
Unless we destroy ourselves before the breakthrough

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't think many people would seriously suggest that there are no alien civiliations out there. There are something like 300,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy, and at least the same number of galaxies. We now know that planetary systems are the norm, rather than (as was thought at one time) the exception. To suggest that we are the only planet in the entire universe which has developed intelligent life really is the most monstrous egotism. ...

And yet we still haven't found so much as even a simple radio message. I believe that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of other extraterrestrial civilizations having developed in our galaxy, but the fact that we still have not one shred of evidence of their existence is disturbing. It leads to the disquieting speculation that perhaps advanced civilizations don't have a very long shelf life. Maybe the norm is for intelligent lifeforms to destroy themselves soon after achieving the capability to do so. It certainly isn't unreasonable to suppose that we're headed in that direction.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

And yet we still haven't found so much as even a simple radio message. I believe that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of other extraterrestrial civilizations having developed in our galaxy, but the fact that we still have not one shred of evidence of their existence is disturbing. It leads to the disquieting speculation that perhaps advanced civilizations don't have a very long shelf life. Maybe the norm is for intelligent lifeforms to destroy themselves soon after achieving the capability to do so. It certainly isn't unreasonable to suppose that we're headed in that direction.

And yes that's the "concerning" part. If you look at the timeline from the beginning of the universe and allow for the time for intelligent species to develop and play that into the distances and power of radio waves and technology to detect weak signals etc. etc. It may not be too unusual that we have not detected anything.

I guess Stephen Hawking is saying that we need to hide in any case. We shouldn't be trying to contact them.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kennyc

And yes that's the "concerning" part. If you look at the timeline from the beginning of the universe and allow for the time for intelligent species to develop and play that into the distances and power of radio waves and technology to detect weak signals etc. etc. It may not be too unusual that we have not detected anything.

The time for which a civilization wastefully transmits EM radiation - radio and TV signals - into space is probably very brief. The Earth now is a lot "quieter" in the radio spectrum than it was 20 years ago, since so many more broadcasts are directional satellite transmissions, rather than unidirectional broadcasts, which go off into space.

If our own experience is typical, there may be no more than a 100 year "window" in which a civilization is detectable in radio frequencies; that really is a vanishingly brief interval in the lifetime of a planetary system.

[rock]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

And yet we still haven't found so much as even a simple radio message. I believe that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of other extraterrestrial civilizations having developed in our galaxy, but the fact that we still have not one shred of evidence of their existence is disturbing. It leads to the disquieting speculation that perhaps advanced civilizations don't have a very long shelf life. Maybe the norm is for intelligent lifeforms to destroy themselves soon after achieving the capability to do so. It certainly isn't unreasonable to suppose that we're headed in that direction.

But but people have proof that beings from other planets have been here, like this recently.

http://www.news.com.au/national/ufo-...-1225844515877


*disclaimer: this is sarcasm*

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by rock

But but people have proof that beings from other planets have been here, like this recently.

http://www.news.com.au/national/ufo-...-1225844515877


*disclaimer: this is sarcasm*

Wow! Aliens have orange Frisbees! Who knew?

[MV64]

Just chipping in: I've looked through some of his books and read his arguments.

As a historian, they are absolutely terrible. Fun to read I bet but the guy is not only a little loopy (and I'm an open minded guy) but seems incapable of actually building a cohesive argument. In one of his books he basically argues that some natural landmark was created bya liens as some elaborate landing strip or something. His argument? It kind of looks like one.

Yikes. Stay away, except for pure enjoyment.

[Teyrnon]

Originally Posted by MV64

As a historian, they are absolutely terrible. Fun to read I bet but the guy is not only a little loopy (and I'm an open minded guy) but seems incapable of actually building a cohesive argument. In one of his books he basically argues that some natural landmark was created bya liens as some elaborate landing strip or something. His argument? It kind of looks like one.

My father was somewhat into Von Daniken's stuff back in the 70s and 80s. I tried reading a couple of the books a few years ago and was struck by this very thing. Von Daniken seems determined to find evidence for aliens in everything and many of his mysteries have well documented answers that he completely ignores.

I wouldn't recommend his books for anything except entertainment. On the other hand I have to admit hearing my father's speculations on the subject when I was growing up sparked my own interest in ancient history and human origins and prehistory.

Also, I rather enjoyed the Stargate television shows so I guess I should thank the ancient astronaut crowd for inspiring the writers involved in that.