Doctorow on the iPad

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by perickson

Hello, I am new to this forum. Can anyone help me? I feel a bit lost. What I'm looking for is a forum to discuss the Que versus the Apple ipad. Help?

Your best bet is the Which One Should I Buy section:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=123

BOb

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by perickson

Hello, I am new to this forum. Can anyone help me? I feel a bit lost. What I'm looking for is a forum to discuss the Que versus the Apple ipad. Help?

There are a ton of post on the iPad as you might imagine, even though it's not really an ebook reader. There are also a few about the Que (which is not released yet as far as I know). I'd suggest a search on Que and join in the discussion there. Or start your own thread appropriate titled, but if it mentions Ipad, watch out for the fan boiz!

Wiki page here: https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/QUE_proReader

A few threads here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=221

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by kennyc

From the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...040400121.html

"....Innovative apps and content optimized for the spacious, high-resolution touchscreen make the iPad a treat to use. Nevertheless, the iPad's other limitations make it hard to recommend as a replacement for (rather than as a complement to) the devices you may be carrying around today. ...."

A quote more relevant to mobleread:

"But how well does the iPad--with its glossy, glary screen and slightly heavier weight--perform as an e-reader? Here, the iPad stumbles big time. Though I loved how easily I could turn pages with a light touch to the side of the book, my hands grew tired of holding the iPad after a few minutes. In addition, the screen's glare tired my eyes, and it was further marred by a slight but noticeable flicker in the background. Furthermore, if you adjust the brightness in iBooks (to ease the potential eyestrain), the brightness settings for the entire iPad change as well."

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Crowl

Fair enough, I thought they were more similar since there are tools out there for cross-platform development like appcelerator, although tbh I still think the two biggest bars to any development would be having the right ideas and the determination to follow through.

Yea, if you have money to throw away - they're not cheap, and don't provide the proper structure for anything but the most basic apps. And no, it's a major bar to developing the app when you simply don't know if Apple's rules will allow it or not.

(Plus, bluntly, while some coders do both C and Java, a lot don't)


Gurvan - A /lot/ of effort is put into the precise lighting levels of ATC rooms and screens. (I've worked and am working on a board game owned by a company whose owner is an ATC controller in his day job, so I know a bit about this, heh)

[mores]

If I were able to program an app for the iPhone, I would love to spend $99 so that all those gazillion people can download my app for $0.99, making me a gazillionaire.
I doubt I'd get that kind of marketing value with my blog and signatures in the 5 forums I frequent.

I'm amazed that so many developers here don't see that.
How many copies of your programs have you sold with just your own website and self-made marketing? Oh, so you want to box it up and put it on shelves at Walmart, Saturn, Virgin etc.? Well guess what, your program needs to comply with some rules.
Mentioning Xbox, PS3, Kindle and what not ... those ALL need to be hacked to be fiddled with. Something you're free to do with your iPhone and iPad too.

Somehow I think most of you just want to be able to push around some bits and bytes and the simple "Thou shalt not do this and come running to us when you f*ck it all up" commandment just rubs you the wrong way.

Jailbreak and be happy.

[stustaff]

Have to agree with Mores, Apple devices seem to get bashed an awful lot for things that other manafacturers/devices are just as guilty of!

You cant choose to sell your own software for a nintendo DS without their permission, there is no guarentee if you start making a game taht nintendo will allow it to be sold for their platform.

Sony dont let you put a different operating system on the PS3 that YOU own!

you cant make a film or write a book using someone elses characters.

MS dont let you put apps on the Zune without their permission...

etc etc

yet people will complain about the app stores wall garden without mention of microsofts or Sonys or nintendo's etc ettc

[pwalker8]

So far I've read one and half books on the iPad (Kindle app). I haven't had any eye strain or arm fatigue, at least compared to holding any comparable sized device or a hard back book. Your mileage may vary. You have tried it, or are you complaining about it purely on philosophic grounds?

No, I can't hold it in bed over my head one handed while lying down, like I can my Sony 505, but it's quite a bit larger than the Sony. Would you say that hard cover books are useless for reading because they are heavier than paper back books or comic books? I hope not, because each has different strength's and weaknesses and each is optimize for a different reading experience. I read the iPad sitting in a chair. I have no plans to throw my Sony 505 away since I would be more likely to use that reading in bed or on a hiking trip.

[DawnFalcon]

Oh, I do bash them for it! Apple are just "in-proximity" here.

You can still load homebrew up on the DS, and distribute it, without a Nintendo licence and using low-cost flashcarts, though. And give it away to others. The only limit is on the official retail channels, which is entirely different to locking people out of distribution entirely.

Sony DO have let you load another OS onto (until now, because of an idiot hacker) the PS3, etc. Also, the Kindle has a SDK in beta. The platforms are nowhere near as closed as you're making out.


"you cant make a film or write a book using someone elses characters."

...

You don't trademark a hardware design any more than a book has a patent taken out on critical sections of it, or its internal workings protected by trade secret. Quite literally, another area of law!

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Oh, I do bash them for it! Apple are just "in-proximity" here.

You can still load homebrew up on the DS, and distribute it, without a Nintendo licence and using low-cost flashcarts, though. And give it away to others. The only limit is on the official retail channels, which is entirely different to locking people out of distribution entirely.

Sony DO have let you load another OS onto (until now, because of an idiot hacker) the PS3, etc. Also, the Kindle has a SDK in beta. The platforms are nowhere near as closed as you're making out.


"you cant make a film or write a book using someone elses characters."

...

You don't trademark a hardware design any more than a book has a patent taken out on critical sections of it, or its internal workings protected by trade secret. Quite literally, another area of law!

Fair enough however the scale is pretty much irrelevant.

I chose the DS I coud of said the Wii which requires 'modding' to enable non nintendo authorised software to run, just as an iphone requires alterations to its firmware to enable non Apple software to run.

The PS3 may have removed the ability to support other OS just because of a hacker but its pretty irrelevant as no one wants a hacker to do certain things with their devices so its not a good excuse! should Sony change how their Vaio laptops work to stop people being able to run illegal software? maybe only allow theirown software OS instead of allowing XP with all its openness and potential hacking that go along with it.

I dont think we actually disagree I'm just pointing out that the majority of devices are designed in this way.

you repeatedly complain about how apple make it hard for people making and investing money in apps without even knowing if Apple will approve it! because they could end up with a product they cant sell... well its EXACTLY the same for any of the other consumer type devices that 'apps' can be sold for.

its unfair to confuse apps and games with 'software'(eg programs that run on an actual computer with an OS) its a different thing.

[tyche]

Originally Posted by mores

How many copies of your programs have you sold with just your own website and self-made marketing? Oh, so you want to box it up and put it on shelves at Walmart, Saturn, Virgin etc.? Well guess what, your program needs to comply with some rules.

I used to sell my own software for about 5 years back in the mid 90s. I had to sign up with an online merchant system (I used two but mainly Regsoft - I think they took 30% I can't remember now ). I had to run a web site (~ 8/month). I had to buy my developer tools (~ $500 at the time). I had to get my programs mentioned and found on other web sites by listing them on shareware sites and interest forums. It was up to me to make it available for people to find.

Now that said, I actually did pretty well as far as I was concerned. I typically sold 8-12 copies (~$20 each) a month for a good 4 years or around 500 copies by the time I stopped selling. It's not a large number but it was a hobby that paid for itself and I was amazed that people all over the world were buying my software.

I've been messing around with the iPhone dev kit lately (and to reiterate, it's free to download and program with and run in the emulator - you just can't load your app onto a device). The hardest part has been coming up with an idea that I both want to do and will have some interest. With such a flooded market with frankly, pretty quality written software, this has me at the drawing board still.

But I think it will be neat to publish a couple iPad apps that will maybe float around the App Store long after I'm gone...

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by stustaff

The PS3 may have removed the ability to support other OS just because of a hacker but its pretty irrelevant as no one wants a hacker to do certain things with their devices so its not a good excuse!

Ah, but you have hit on the very core of the issue, here. Once my money is given to the company and I take possession of the hardware, it is no longer Sony's device-- it is mine. And I should be able to do absolutely anything at all that I wish with it. Such as build a cheap, reasonably powerful supercomputer.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by stustaff

its unfair to confuse apps and games with 'software'(eg programs that run on an actual computer with an OS) its a different thing.

"Software" is a set of ones and zeros that encode instructions for the behavior of computer hardware. You are the one confused.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by stustaff

you repeatedly complain about how apple make it hard for people making and investing money in apps without even knowing if Apple will approve it! because they could end up with a product they cant sell... well its EXACTLY the same for any of the other consumer type devices that 'apps' can be sold for.

No, it's not. If you go to Microsoft or Sony with a proposal for a game, they'll look at it and say "yes" or "no", subject to you following a thick book of technical requirements. You then make the software, they check it against their TRC's and then approve it. If they won't, you find out very early on in the process.

The iPod/Pad? You have to make the software, then submit it, and only THEN you find out if it's been accepted or not - after you've already created the entire program.

These situations are not equivalent!

its unfair to confuse apps and games with 'software'(eg programs that run on an actual computer with an OS) its a different thing.

And again...no, it's not. Software is software is software. The unfairness is when you try and say a walled garden somehow makes the device behind it "different". It's not. Moreover, most devices are not locked down, and the trend is for more and not less openness in development.

It's AOL vs the Internet, all over again.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Ah, but you have hit on the very core of the issue, here. Once my money is given to the company and I take possession of the hardware, it is no longer Sony's device-- it is mine. And I should be able to do absolutely anything at all that I wish with it. Such as build a cheap, reasonably powerful supercomputer.

Oh dont get me wrong I agree, but we also have to allow that Sony can do what they want with their firmware, we dont have to use it and they also have the right to say if you dont use X firmware we wont let the device play games that we release.

We cant have it both ways, I have the freedom to jailbreak my iphone and install whatever I want. Apple have the freedom to try and make a device that stops me installing whatever I like.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

"Software" is a set of ones and zeros that encode instructions for the behavior of computer hardware. You are the one confused.

Not confused but maybe not explaining clearly, when i said 'software' i mean some ones and zeros written by someone that works in a full fledged OS that does not require a certificate etc to workon a device.

apps and games usually require something to allow them to run on the device eg games on xbox or apps on apple. I was using teh names to highlight how they are different whilst yes they are of course still 1010110101's.