Best rechargeables for Jetbook?

[jblitereader]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

When I was using the high capacity Duracells and Energizers, I was spending a large chunk of my life charging the stupid things every month because they would run down on me in a month.

I'm just curious about something. You sound like you actually put the batteries into the charger and sit there watch it charge. Do you actually do this?

What I do is I have several sets and would alternate them. For example, I'd be charging set A while I use set B. I'd also keep set C in one place and set D in another as back-ups in case I run out. In other words, no time is lost for me when I recharge the batteries.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

For the record, I never post until I have read the entire thread, as I did here. I was fully aware of the subject of the thread. Again, since apparently you still don't get it, I was merely reporting that my experience showed the Eneloop were the most reliable. Frankly, I don't give the north end of a southbound rat whether you agree or not. You seem to be the one that has problems with other people's opinions.

Btw, your little tests only address how long the batteries you are testing will run in the JBL. It will take several months, if not years, to determine how long the batteries will continue to be usable before they fail. How long the batteries I used lasted was what I was addressing. I would much rather have a reliable battery than a high capacity battery.

While I haven't the time or money to waste on doing a formal study (I have more important things to do), I have had experience with both the conventional NiMH and the newer "precharged" NiMH and have had much better luck with them, especially the Eneloops. And that is what I reported.

This is jj2me's post in case you missed it:

LSD (like Eneloops) vs. regular NiMH - "few weeks of storage" crossover point

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The crossover point where a typical LSD (low self-discharge) is longer-lasting than a typical traditional NiMH (with its higher capacity), is given by this heuristic on Wikipedia:


Quote:
However, after only a few weeks of storage, the retained capacity of low-self-discharge batteries often exceeds that of traditional NiMH batteries of higher capacity.

which references this website that tested 4 AA Eneloops vs. 4AA "well respected brand" traditional NiMHs.

I over-analyzed from this tiny sample by doing the following crossover point calculations using the charts in that reference (white charts for Eneloops, scroll down for pink charts for traditionals):
Nominal capacity (Eneloops | Traditional): 2000 mAh | 2500 mAh.
Measured capacity after 5 and 4 charge/discharge cycles at 1.2A (Eneloops | Traditional)): 1848 mAh | 2172 mAh
Charge retention (Eneloops (mAh) | Traditional (mAh)):
Day: 99.8% (1844 mAh ) | 99% (2150 mAh)
Week: 98.7% (1824 mAh) | 93.3% (2026 mAh)
Month: 94.3% (1743 mAh) | 73.8% (1602 mAh)

Assuming approximately a straight line storage discharge curve (taking some liberty when looking at this site's non-linear NiMH Battery Retention Curve), we come out to approximately three weeks of storage, whereupon a 2000 mAH LSD NiMH retains more capacity than a 2500 mAh Traditional NiMH.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by livingenzyme

I'm just curious about something. You sound like you actually put the batteries into the charger and sit there watch it charge. Do you actually do this?

What I do is I have several sets and would alternate them. For example, I'd be charging set A while I use set B. I'd also keep set C in one place and set D in another as back-ups in case I run out. In other words, no time is lost for me when I recharge the batteries.

I don't why you got that idea. I would rather watch paint dry. The charger I'm using, once set, runs without any help from me. I just check the readouts every hour or two (or whenever I think of it) after the batteries have been charging for around eight hours. When the readouts say FULL, I remove the batteries.

I carry my batteries in sets of four wrapped with a rubber band and all the poles aligned in the same direction. When I swap out the batteries, I wrap the spent batteries with the rubber band but reverse one or two of the batteries. This makes it easy for me to see which sets are charged and which are spent. When I replace batteries in devices that use only one or two batteries, I just break a set and keep it in my purse so I'll know where it is. It is reasonably accessable there whether I'm at home or on the road. By having extra batteries on hand, I don't have to wait for batteries to charge before being able to use the devices that need them. While my batteries are not marked, I pretty much keep them rotated. I haven't had any run down on me while waiting to be used.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Seabound

Well I don't think he was trying to help you. He was asking you valid questions relevant to this thread. Smartalecy, yeah sure, but hardly a personal attack.

And I gave him valid answers even though he was asking his questions in a smart alecky way, such as:


And this tells us something about battery use for the Jetbook, how again?


A perfectly valid question, on the surface, but his tone suggested derision, not a request for clarification. The entire pattern of his questioning came across as a put down of my post, especially when he asks for verification of what was clearly stated in my post, setting me up for his very clever zinger, quoted above (btw, in case you missed it, that last part was sarcasm).

[jblitereader]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

I don't why you got that idea.

Haha, because of this sentence by you.

When I was using the high capacity Duracells and Energizers,
I was spending a large chunk of my life charging the stupid things every month because they would run down on me in a month.

Emphasis mine.

I really got the mental image of you putting in the batteries and then sit there and watch them recharge.

[jj2me]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

his tone suggested derision, not a request for clarification. The entire pattern of his questioning came across as a put down of my post

Yes, Ken, a question, why be so demeaning? Can you point to something specific from each of the people that you've derided that was so stupid or mean that you were compelled to go into this mode?

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

it is a shame that you missed the one I had hoped might be understood;
It is a good idea to consider the subject of the thread, before you post.

Pompous in its stubborn stupidity.

Sorry to say it that way, but it's like needing to kick a horse that won't listen in order to get its attention.

Have you considered that maybe people have already, politely, tried to lead you away from your ignorance of things electric? But you stubbornly didn't listen and don't learn?

Draw. Voltage drop. Capacity. Physics, Ohm's Law, etc., don't change because it's a jetBook.

You: "My experience is with the JBL. Your's and those you reference appears to be with the performance of your favorite battery in general or in other equipment."

chainring's response: "JetBook Lite, clock, radio, whatever... They're all electronic devices that require a certain amount of voltage and ampere hours to operate. I could care less which one, just tell me the power requirements. "

But you're still not accepting new information, like, how your pre-conceived notions are, maybe, possibly, incorrect?

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

It also would help if you bothered to read the thread. There is one post where I
invited anyone to do the same type of device specific testing as I have posted
here, I even mentioned the Enloops as a candidate. So far I haven't seen any
such testing posted.

Guess what, Ken? Tests of Eneloops are all over the web, like in the links you were given. Just not done with your insistence that electricity works differently in a JBL.

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

For most of us, whatever LSD capabilities they
may have would be of no real use, though. The test results here indicate as much.

ACK! THIS IS THE ONLY REASON I go through the pain of checking this thread about once a month, because I just knew you'd ignore the posts that told you your LSDs are not real LSDs, and misinform others by using results from your fake LSDs to tell others that LSDs aren't as claimed. Stubborn ignorance.

NOTE TO OTHERS: Ken's LSDs are not performing like any other major brand 2100 mAh LSDs (see teasts on web) because they are NOT TRUE LSDs (see earlier posts).

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

It does seem odd to me that with all the other rechargeable battery makes out
there, there are only "Enloopies" who must become excited if there is any suggestion
that their favorite battery is not loved by all or not thought to be the perfect answer
to every battery question.

Like who, exactly?

Take my introduction to your snarkiness. In my first post I wrote what I thought might be a helpful summary of rechargeable types, and in it said that I didn't know the crossover point. Then in a subsequent post, simply answering my own question about crossover point, I used a Wikipedia-referenced study that just happened to have used the Eneloop brand LSD. That's when you imputed some fanboy motivation to me. I went, "Whaaat?" Where was that from?

Jeanne? She just gave her user experiences, which was very valuable to me. To your credit, you've always laid out the caveat that your tests don't indicate lifetimes. In my experience (maybe 300 rechargeable AAs and AAAs over many years), I could never find a way to tell which brand or model within a brand would last longest. Jeanne's was the first user experience given in this thread. I would much rather she found that a Duracell or other brand did well, so I wouldn't have to see more of your knee-jerk impolite reponses because of the simple mention of a simple brand.

Read the posts. It was always you who reacted to the word Eneloop in a rabid way, making people defensively feed you more links (which you seemingly ignored).

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

It is only a AA battery! There is no "Best", Most provide about the same level of
performance and utility when used in the JBL. If you disagree please provide testing
data, for use in the JBL, that can be compared to the test runs posted in this thread.

Read the thread. You've been given links. No one cares about brand, unless it works better for their purposes.

The NiZn tests are great. NiMH tests are on the web. You're repeating them, with lesser test equipment (a battery display icon). But that's fine, as maybe you'll come up with some interesting result or observation.

Now, to utter the harshest word I can say to respond to your uncalled for impoliteness:

ENELOOP

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by livingenzyme

Haha, because of this sentence by you.


Emphasis mine.

I really got the mental image of you putting in the batteries and then sit there and watch them recharge.

Curious.

[Ken Maltby]

There being no point in attempting debate with those using the tactics you two are
displaying here, I will just set the record straight and ignore the rest of your fained
outrage. I doubt that you are really that thin skinned and are just using the victim
card, as a tactic.

On LSD battery utility in the JBL:
The results I was referring to are not based on a comparison with any LSD batteries,
"real" or not. They result from the fact that the regular (non-LSD batteries) have
"shelf times" that exceed the operational needs for my regular reading pattern. If the
"regular" batteries can give me 24 days after charging and provide full power to the JBL,
then last the number of hours of use shown in the results, Then any special Low Self
Discharge (LSD) capabilities your special batteries may have will never come into play.

If I were to regularly have sets of batteries that have gone two months or more on the
shelf after charging, like the Lady Fitzgerald described, then an interest in LSD batteries
would make some sense, but that is a very unlikely scenario for a JBL user.

----------

Yes, electrical and electronic properties remain the same, but battery performance can
vary - isn't that your contention, that your favorite battery functions better than all
others? This will apparently come as a shock, but lab test results don't always match
the results in the field. "Your mileage may vary" applies to many things in real life.

I find it worthwhile to make purchase decisions based on real world practical results
as relate as closely as possible to the actual environment the items will be used in.
Even you should see how the testing in this thread attempts to come close to that
objective, and that it directly relates to the question posed by this thread. Your
links to general battery performance testing results, do not actually address the
question.

Ken

[Seabound]

For the record, I am using Rayovac Platinum rechargeables (2100 mAh, 1.2V) in my JBL. I bought these off the shelf from my local big box and they serve me just fine, although they're probably not among the "elite" rechargeables. I have two sets of these for my JBL, and it's so simple to keep one set charged and ready for when my current set discharges to low. Since these work well enough for me, I have no motivation to go out and buy another brand of batteries, even without the repulsing effect of the obnoxious attitude of a few who have posted on this thread.

Thank you, Ken, for not taking the bait, and for putting this thread back on a civil tone. It was going downhill really fast.

[pshrynk]

Please refrain from personal attacks. Our posting guidelines are very clear and may be found at the bottom of the page. If you disagree with someone, say that you disagree, not that that person is of an inferior nature.

Moderation Team

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

There being no point in attempting debate with those using the tactics you two are
displaying here, I will just set the record straight and ignore the rest of your fained
outrage. I doubt that you are really that thin skinned and are just using the victim
card, as a tactic.

Ken

[GhostHawk]

Like Ken I have no interest in long term storage of batterys.

So they drop 1% per day, on average, assuming I charge them 3 days in advance that is a total of 3% loss. Hardly worth my being concerned about.

Even if as soon as I take the discharged batterys out of the JBL and I charge them.
Figuring a week as an average, thats still only 7% loss. Certainly nothing to be concerned, at least for this user.

Now batterys that get me an extra 2 - 10 hours of use between charges, now that right there is what I'm talking about. And Ken is right on the money there.

Your mileage may vary.