Amazon pulls MacMillan?

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I blame Apple for this.

Apple may bring a lot more people into the ebook world that are far more comfortable with piracy. MacMillan may find themselves competing with free. $9.99 will look pretty good at that point.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Apple may bring a lot more people into the ebook world that are far more comfortable with piracy. MacMillan may find themselves competing with free. $9.99 will look pretty good at that point.

What I think is that McMillan is saying to themselves ... "Since we can get Apple to agree to this ludicrous deal, then we can get Amazon to go for it too".

So blame Apple for giving in.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Then don't sign. You chose, and you have to deal with the consequences of your choice. Sure, that might rule out the major book companies, but they are not the only people to sign and distribute books: and shelf inches are not important for ebooks.

Macmillan's grab to control book pricing is a move straight from the Net Book Agreement. Tou're entirely entitled to claim your side and you've clearly done so. I won't buy your books, of course, which is my right.

You astound me. You clearly have little understanding of the book business, at least from the author-publisher side.

Actually, I haven't claimed a side at all, other than to say that this dispute is trampling all of the authors published by Macmillan (which includes Tor), whether they have ebook editions or not.

Of course you have the right not to buy my books. But whether you say that because you think I've somehow sided with Macmillan (I haven't) or for some other reason remains unclear.

[DawnFalcon]

There's a number of authors who are making absolute clowns of themselves over this, including a number who I'd of formerly named as some of my favourite ones. Turns out instead of being smart, they're simply self-centred. Go figure, I'll just buy them second hand forever more.

One of my housemates who also posts on these issues, but tends to go to blogs rather than forums, has just thrown two Scalzi books of his out the window in the garden and is frothing at the mouth. And after reading why, I cannot disagree with him. He was genuinely trying to have a rational discussion and to help, and the sheer level of rudeness displayed would of caused me to walk away regardless. I think he may have a point about allowing the idiots to burn, honestly, if the view is that black, white and self-righteous.

The only even remotely sensible analysis I've seen so far is Cory Doctorow, and even he hasn't addressed the issue of why book publishers should have the right to set prices. (And personally, I don't much like his books, and actively dislike the latest, Makers)

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by starrigger

You astound me. You clearly have little understanding of the book business, at least from the author-publisher side.

From my POV, I understand it all to well. That's one reason I refuse to let my short stories go anywhere near the book industry, I give them away as promotional material for my RPG settings instead. If the novel industry willing to grow up and grant me a decent amount of control of my material (as happens with other forms of writing), then in the future I'll deal with them. Until then, not interested.

And okay, I'll accept you haven't chosen sides. But that's really not how you came across in your initial post.

[jaxx6166]

Wow. This is huge....One of the main reasons I bought my Kindle was because Tor had a rather large foothold on their Kindle store.

This... this changes things.

[jaxx6166]

Originally Posted by starrigger

Amazon certainly isn't being my friend. They didn't just pull ebooks, they pulled all books. Including my new paperback. And the books of many of my colleagues. Collateral damage in a stupid war.

I agree, Jeff. This is bad for all of us. Someone needs to budge. =/

[advocate2]

The Wall Street Journal

Macmillan Says Amazon Removes All Macmillan E-Books

Amazon.com Inc. has removed all e-book titles published by Macmillan from Amazon and its Kindle e-reader site in a battle over pricing, according to a statement issued by Macmillan late Saturday.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._LEFTWhatsNews

[asjogren]

What clout do you authors have over the publishers - like MacMillan? Does your contract allow you to drop? Can you publish the next with a different publisher? Is it exclusive, or, can you publish your own eBook somewhere like SmashWords?

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by asjogren

What clout do you authors have over the publishers - like MacMillan? Does your contract allow you to drop? Can you publish the next with a different publisher? Is it exclusive, or, can you publish your own eBook somewhere like SmashWords?

Many traditionally published author contracts have a clause that reads something like, 'publisher has right of first refusal on next book.'

This varies in wording--some only get right of first refusal in the genre, some only get right of first refusal for a series, some get it for anything the author writes.

I'm not sure there is an easy answer to your question, but in general, the author doesn't have a ton of power to wield in many cases. IT's damned hard to get published in the first place. There's some loyalty involved, there's a lot of hard work--on the part of editors, artists, publicity, copyeditors--and the author. So this mess doesn't do them any favors and just walking away isn't likely to be a great choice for anyone.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What I think is that McMillan is saying to themselves ... "Since we can get Apple to agree to this ludicrous deal, then we can get Amazon to go for it too".

I've now read the letter from the Macmillan rep. So I have to ask, why is the deal they offered Apple ludicrous? Unless you think Apple should get a bigger cut.

I'm not crazy about ebooks being priced at $15 when a hardcover is published (though I've seen many listed for more), but I also can't say that they're wrong to believe that cheap ebook prices initially will endanger hardcover sales. I'm not saying they're right, but I'm not sure they're wrong, either. And hardcover sales are important to books making a profit.

I also dislike the idea of "windowing." But is this scenario so bad :

1. Hardcover published at $25, simultaneous ebook release at Apple and whoever else took that deal for $15.
2. Six months later, ebook release at Amazon and those who took the other deal for $10.
3. A year later, paperback is published, and ebook prices go down everywhere at the same time.

That could be how it works, if Amazon took one of the options offered. Granted, it wouldn't allow Amazon to undercut everyone else on initial publication. But they'd still be selling the treebooks, which remain profitable for them, and they'd be on a level playing field with others for the ebooks.

Too much of this fight is about who gets control. Macmillan wants to control prices, Amazon wants to control the whole ebook market. I'm not very happy with either one of them right now. This fight is too much like two dinosaurs crashing into each other, while the other dinosaurs stand by watching.

Of course, I'm also not happy about DRM from anybody, but that's a different issue.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by starrigger

I've now read the letter from the Macmillan rep. So I have to ask, why is the deal they offered Apple ludicrous? Unless you think Apple should get a bigger cut.

I'm not crazy about ebooks being priced at $15 when a hardcover is published (though I've seen many listed for more), but I also can't say that they're wrong to believe that cheap ebook prices initially will endanger hardcover sales. I'm not saying they're right, but I'm not sure they're wrong, either. And hardcover sales are important to books making a profit.

I also dislike the idea of "windowing." But is this scenario so bad :

1. Hardcover published at $25, simultaneous ebook release at Apple and whoever else took that deal for $15.
2. Six months later, ebook release at Amazon and those who took the other deal for $10.
3. A year later, paperback is published, and ebook prices go down everywhere at the same time.

That could be how it works, if Amazon took one of the options offered. Granted, it wouldn't allow Amazon to undercut everyone else on initial publication. But they'd still be selling the treebooks, which remain profitable for them, and they'd be on a level playing field with others for the ebooks.

Too much of this fight is about who gets control. Macmillan wants to control prices, Amazon wants to control the whole ebook market. I'm not very happy with either one of them right now. This fight is too much like two dinosaurs crashing into each other, while the other dinosaurs stand by watching.

You make some good points--but I think Amazon doesn't want to hand over pricing control to the publishers. That would then take away some of their opportunity to be competitive, offer loss leaders, deals and so on. If they make this deal with Macmillan (and they may in the end) they will have to make the same deal with all the other publishers. Again, they'll be giving up some of their competitive edge--and possibly losing sales if people decide they won't buy ebooks in the 15 dollar range.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by Barcey

John Sargent's letter to author's is posted here. It explains Macmillan's side.

http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/lunch/free/

The problem with Macmillan's argument is that the same could be applied to setting of paper prices as much as electronic prices. And given the list retail prices for paper books nowadays, the last thing I want is publishers setting fixed prices - for paper or electronic.

I think the who blinks first depends on whether the other publishers follow.

[jaxx6166]

Originally Posted by starrigger

1. Hardcover published at $25, simultaneous ebook release at Apple and whoever else took that deal for $15.
2. Six months later, ebook release at Amazon and those who took the other deal for $10.
3. A year later, paperback is published, and ebook prices go down everywhere at the same time.

I may be part of the vocal minority but this windowing scenario is one that I am more than happy to accept. What I won't accept is paying $27.95+ for a digital DRM version of the same title.

Especially considering after B/N member discount said title is no more than $20. Above all else, I refuse to pay more for a digital version than a hardcover, like some houses have tried to pull.

I've personally boycotted Bantam/Spectra ever since the Terry Brooks fiasco.

But, that was back when Sony was still making LRF's. And Genesis... was $29.95 digital and $17.95 dead tree.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by starrigger

I've now read the letter from the Macmillan rep. So I have to ask, why is the deal they offered Apple ludicrous?

Name the industries, please, where the wholesaler dictates to the retailer the actual pricing. Not RRP, actual pricing.

I also dislike the idea of "windowing." But is this scenario so bad:

Depends if you mind the big spike in darknet activity for ebooks it'd cause. And for every ebook, mind, not just those directly affected (although somewhat more for the directly affected ones).