Kindle Geographic Restrictions On US Website - Against US Buyers - Page 7

kennyc · 10-15-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Nope. When you first set your location, that's where that Kindle is based. So sorry if you move.

So the geographic restriction is more literal than we'd thought.

No moving around.

braver · 10-15-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

So the geographic restriction is more literal than we'd thought.

No moving around.

This is not correct. I've switched to UK and bought two books which are not available in the US. Then I switched back to the US. I have the books, the only downside you pay VAT and international roaming... on the US-only Kindle, that is. A free biography of Benjamin Franklin is $2.30 on in the UK. A $10 book I was after is under $14, still better than the paperback.

DawnFalcon · 10-15-2009, 06:54 PM

So basically what Amazon said wasn't true? o.O

braver · 10-15-2009, 06:59 PM

As I explained earlier, Amazon has to model a tourist visiting UK and buying a book there. All you have to do is change your location. You can do it back and forth. This is a gift by Amazon to the people of the world, so they could buy whatever they want -- except you have to declare you're at a different place. Amazon only profits from it, and there's no real way to check this, except using 3G for geolocation, which you must authorize if it even were ever attempted.

CommanderROR · 10-15-2009, 07:26 PM

Well, that sounds like good news then...they left the back door open wide...I won't have to cancel my Kindle order after all...

DawnFalcon · 10-15-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braver

As I explained earlier, Amazon has to model a tourist visiting UK and buying a book there. All you have to do is change your location. You can do it back and forth. This is a gift by Amazon to the people of the world, so they could buy whatever they want -- except you have to declare you're at a different place. Amazon only profits from it, and there's no real way to check this, except using 3G for geolocation, which you must authorize if it even were ever attempted.

Amazon dosn't "have" to do anything. You're talking about the US-only Kindle, which cannot access wireless networks outside the US (in the UK, it litterally cannot - the wireless is incompatible).

This is not a "gift" in any sense of word, it's a major bug which makes a absolute mockery of the rights of the companies it's supposedly upholding.

And why would you need to "authorise" geolocation? No such requirement exists. Indeed, it's perfectly arguable that you don't even need to mention it in the end-user agreement. More, geolocation would again be utterly pointless since the US-only Kindle cannot, again, access wireless services outside the USA!

Now, if you were talking about the international Kindle, then there is a serious disconnect there between the statements made by Amazon and what you're describing... (They've clearly stated there's a "base country" set...)

braver · 10-15-2009, 08:42 PM

I wonder whether Sprint roaming is indeed US-only -- there's CDMA in some other places. In any case, one can buy on Amazon's website and then choose a Kindle to deliver to, at a later date.

Basically, they can't really enforce "base country" on a person who visits another country. If this is a bug, let it be -- but in all cases, it will lead to the demise of the geo-rights for ebooks.

No more "Superb! Our favourite! -- London Times" blurbs for the US editions test-driven in the UK first.

DawnFalcon · 10-15-2009, 08:48 PM

Of course they can enforce "base country". They don't need to geolocate, even. All they need to do is check if the client is roaming or not (which is trivial). The selection of books will allways remain the same (based on where the Kindle is registered), and if they're roaming, add an extra charge.

And I am not the London Times. Simply because a couple of reporters like their free Kindles dosn't mean that everyone else can't see the shipping charges, for starters...

braver · 10-15-2009, 09:23 PM

What I mean they can't enforce it is that there's a business case not to. They'll provide various assurances to the publishers, but when revenues keep coming, they'll all look the other way. Since you can visit another country and buy a book there, e-readers will have to model that. My conjecture is, this will lead to the demise of geo-segreration.

B.K. Wright · 10-19-2009, 05:18 AM

I know this doesn't relate, but I love your kitten picture. I have 3 cats, and your picture looks just like them when they were kittens. So cute.

GizmoPlanet · 10-27-2009, 10:13 PM

And they still won't sell Kindles in Canada, despite all these latest moves to impose geographic restrictions and so on. Ya gotta wonder if Amazon hates Canada or Canadians generally.

Not that I want to buy a Kindle with its orientation towards consumer lock-ins and proprietary software and hardware. I just find it strange that a company like Amazon would refuse to sell in Canada when they'll sell everywhere else in the world.

desertgrandma · 10-27-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GizmoPlanet

And they still won't sell Kindles in Canada, despite all these latest moves to impose geographic restrictions and so on. Ya gotta wonder if Amazon hates Canada or Canadians generally.

Not that I want to buy a Kindle with its orientation towards consumer lock-ins and proprietary software and hardware. I just find it strange that a company like Amazon would refuse to sell in Canada when they'll sell everywhere else in the world.

'sigh.

They don't sell "everywhere else in the word"

They aren't "refusing to sell in Canada"

They have to work out the different copyright restrictions, not to mention getting the wireless worked out.

The money to be made is staggering. No company would 'refuse' sales like that.

Randall679 · 10-28-2009, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GizmoPlanet

Ya gotta wonder if Amazon hates Canada or Canadians generally.

Re: Canadians ... Why should Amazon be any different? [kidding]

Anyway, now that the NOOK is out of the bag and the Apple Tablet is a reality, I think Amazon will change their tune soon.

In Australia, they were asking for a 70% take of the revenue from publishers and media companies ... Apple take 30%.

I'm not sure about Barnes and Noble, but the NOOK also sounds like a much more open platform reader.

sianon · 10-28-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Amazon dosn't "have" to do anything. You're talking about the US-only Kindle, which cannot access wireless networks outside the US (in the UK, it litterally cannot - the wireless is incompatible).

This is not a "gift" in any sense of word, it's a major bug which makes a absolute mockery of the rights of the companies it's supposedly upholding.

And why would you need to "authorise" geolocation? No such requirement exists. Indeed, it's perfectly arguable that you don't even need to mention it in the end-user agreement. More, geolocation would again be utterly pointless since the US-only Kindle cannot, again, access wireless services outside the USA!

Now, if you were talking about the international Kindle, then there is a serious disconnect there between the statements made by Amazon and what you're describing... (They've clearly stated there's a "base country" set...)

Dawn with the international Kindle, a customer can change country locations as often as he/she desires and purchase books. I have already purchased, and downloaded books from the Australian and US storefronts. Changing between countries is a trivial matter.

Karen

DawnFalcon · 10-28-2009, 03:55 PM

Okay, so Amazon are lying to the rights holders.

This is unethical and very likely highly illegal.

10-15-2009, 06:59 PM	#94
braver Enthusiast Posts: 49 Karma: 86 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle DX	As I explained earlier, Amazon has to model a tourist visiting UK and buying a book there. All you have to do is change your location. You can do it back and forth. This is a gift by Amazon to the people of the world, so they could buy whatever they want -- except you have to declare you're at a different place. Amazon only profits from it, and there's no real way to check this, except using 3G for geolocation, which you must authorize if it even were ever attempted. Last edited by braver; 10-15-2009 at 07:01 PM.

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10-15-2009, 06:54 PM	#93
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	So basically what Amazon said wasn't true? o.O

10-15-2009, 07:26 PM	#95
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Well, that sounds like good news then...they left the back door open wide...I won't have to cancel my Kindle order after all...

10-15-2009, 08:42 PM	#97
braver Enthusiast Posts: 49 Karma: 86 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle DX	I wonder whether Sprint roaming is indeed US-only -- there's CDMA in some other places. In any case, one can buy on Amazon's website and then choose a Kindle to deliver to, at a later date. Basically, they can't really enforce "base country" on a person who visits another country. If this is a bug, let it be -- but in all cases, it will lead to the demise of the geo-rights for ebooks. No more "Superb! Our favourite! -- London Times" blurbs for the US editions test-driven in the UK first.

10-15-2009, 08:48 PM	#98
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Of course they can enforce "base country". They don't need to geolocate, even. All they need to do is check if the client is roaming or not (which is trivial). The selection of books will allways remain the same (based on where the Kindle is registered), and if they're roaming, add an extra charge. And I am not the London Times. Simply because a couple of reporters like their free Kindles dosn't mean that everyone else can't see the shipping charges, for starters...

10-15-2009, 09:23 PM	#99
braver Enthusiast Posts: 49 Karma: 86 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle DX	What I mean they can't enforce it is that there's a business case not to. They'll provide various assurances to the publishers, but when revenues keep coming, they'll all look the other way. Since you can visit another country and buy a book there, e-readers will have to model that. My conjecture is, this will lead to the demise of geo-segreration.

10-19-2009, 05:18 AM	#100
B.K. Wright Zealot Posts: 26 Karma: 1010232 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Device: none	I know this doesn't relate, but I love your kitten picture. I have 3 cats, and your picture looks just like them when they were kittens. So cute.

10-27-2009, 10:13 PM	#101
GizmoPlanet Member Posts: 23 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Device: Sony PRS-300	And they still won't sell Kindles in Canada, despite all these latest moves to impose geographic restrictions and so on. Ya gotta wonder if Amazon hates Canada or Canadians generally. Not that I want to buy a Kindle with its orientation towards consumer lock-ins and proprietary software and hardware. I just find it strange that a company like Amazon would refuse to sell in Canada when they'll sell everywhere else in the world.

10-28-2009, 03:55 PM	#105
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Okay, so Amazon are lying to the rights holders. This is unethical and very likely highly illegal.

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