Declaration of Independence

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by kaan

This is how the world is from my point of view:

I find a new ebook that I want to read.
I search for a place of purchase.
Most likely it will be for sale through Amazon or Sony.

This leaves me with the choice of either piracy, or passing myself off as a US citizen.

Piracy is a copyright infringement, with a monetary penalty in civil court.

Passing myself off as a US citizen is fraud, witch will earn me a jail sentence in criminal court.

The legal thing to do would be to not get the ebook at all.
But I am bad at denying myself the things I want.
So what do I do?

Buy the paper edition??!? Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Actually, I don't know what to tell you. I personally think Geographical Restrictions is counter productive to all parties involved. Your question is the Kobayashi Maru of ebooks.

Please don't tell anyone I made a Star Trek reference. They would be so disappointed in me.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by bill the smith

@K-Thom
OK, despite your personal attacks on me, we may be able to have a proper discussion.
I know I can lend my actual physical ebook reader.
That is not waht I was asking.
Let me be more specific.
Can I lend my brother the computer file called anybook.lrf for him to read on his computer or ebook on condition that he deletes it after he has read it?

In that way you can do more with DRM-ed ebooks than you can with a physical book. You can register 4-6 devices to legally read the same book simultaneously.

And as to Kaan, when you give your address as "US" you are not passing yourself off as a US citizen. As long as your credit card payment goes through you have done nothing wrong. The regional restrictions are between the publishers and the booksellers, the website might get into trouble, not you.

And no lame excuses, please. If you cannot obtain something through legal means that still does not give you the right to get it through illegal means. Just imagine if everybody applied your reasoning in real life. "Hey, I can't afford that Ferrari, but I want one. So I will just take one".

[Patricia]

I'm afraid that bill the smith has asked to have his membership deleted:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...441#post555441
So he won't be around to add to this thread.
But please don't be despondent. There's bound to be a new DRM or copyright thread before too long.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Patricia

But please don't be despondent. There's bound to be a new DRM or copyright thread before too long.

Ohh, good, life would be boring otherwise

[Fanas]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

That's assuming the author wants to do all the work of editing, proofing, formatting, marketing etc etc etc involved in the book.

If they don't want to do all that, or can't, then they would have to pay others to do it.(generally speaking).

Further, if they do it all themselves it is very very likely their work will actually receive less of an audience because they are necessarily less skilled at all of that, particularly the marketing side of things. This lesser audience will very likely result in less money. That's life I suppose but it does make the whole "If I pay a pittance but it all goes to the author he/she will actually make more money" argument seem a little less valid.

I agree that if prices were lower there would likely be less piracy. If prices were $0 there would be even less piracy still! So what?

I'm all for reasonably priced ebooks. What I am against is the idea that all books must be made available in ebook form for $0 or some "symbolic" price.

That's really got nothing to do with ebooks and the discussion at hand.

I agree publishers should adapt. However, with attitudes like yours and the OP's as evidenced here, it is little wonder to me that they do not appear to be willing to do so.

Cheers,
PKFFW

E-books have an advantage of not requiring many of those middle men. As for other they can be done by the author himself. Marketing being probably only exception.
What I find strange that still e-books are often more expensive than their paperback relatives.
Unfortunately I am not an author/publisher and I have no idea what it would cost to release a book. But what I understand is that e-book would not require many of the expenses paper book needs. If anyone knows the numbers, please share. So that we could find out what a fair price should be.

[Fanas]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

"Hey, I can't afford that Ferrari, but I want one. So I will just take one".

Bad example. I can't afford Ferrari even though I am not restricted to buy it, and I wouldn't steal it. While I can afford e-book, but various restrictions won't allow to buy it.
If I could get my hands on Kindle I would obviously use it to the full potential, but unfortunately I can't get neither Kindle, nor e-books.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Fanas

Bad example. I can't afford Ferrari even though I am not restricted to buy it, and I wouldn't steal it. While I can afford e-book, but various restrictions won't allow to buy it.
If I could get my hands on Kindle I would obviously use it to the full potential, but unfortunately I can't get neither Kindle, nor e-books.

If you check these forums there are plenty of legal ways to get the Kindle (so called US shopping service companies can help you for a fee) and the regionally restriced books (through gift certificates from other members).

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by kazbates

Since I thought your post was very funny I was going to flippantly respond, "Sure, knock yourself out!", but, thinking about it, I'm just not sure. There might be some law stating that you cannot take a picture without permission. It would seem silly to me, but who knows!?!? This whole DRM thing is confusing, but I do know it is wrong to knowingly pirate a book (or ebook) whether you like the laws or not.

But, Sparrow, I did get a BIG chuckle out of your post. Thanks.

Well, if you buy a plan for a piece of furniture from, say, Wood Magazine, it says quite clearly that you have the right to build the furniture for your own use or to give away, but not to sell it.

[Who are you?]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Well, if you buy a plan for a piece of furniture from, say, Wood Magazine, it says quite clearly that you have the right to build the furniture for your own use or to give away, but not to sell it.

Which is great, unfortunately not everyone works this way, e.g. you still have some architects who add DRM to their designs so it's impossible to implement them for yourself.

[Fanas]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

If you check these forums there are plenty of legal ways to get the Kindle (so called US shopping service companies can help you for a fee) and the regionally restriced books (through gift certificates from other members).

Wireless only works in USA, kindle would be useless where I live.

[pking36330]

Originally Posted by Fanas

Bad example. I can't afford Ferrari even though I am not restricted to buy it, and I wouldn't steal it. While I can afford e-book, but various restrictions won't allow to buy it.
If I could get my hands on Kindle I would obviously use it to the full potential, but unfortunately I can't get neither Kindle, nor e-books.

Ah, but it's not that you can't get a Kindle, it's that you are not willing to spend the money to comply with Kindle restrictions. You could fly to the US, purchase your Kindle, PURCHASE and download 6-month's or a year's worth of books and fly home. But because this is expensive, you CHOOSE to obtain the same content illegally. You make a decision to satisfy your entertainment desires by robbing authors of their royalties due. You are probably furious at your cell phone carrier for trying to restrict your access to unlimit minutes that you 'need', and your cable TV provider for restricting access to premium channels you haven't paid for. Poor thing, some of your entertainment desires go unfulfilled because you can't circumvent those restrictions as easily as you can the access to illicit ebooks. You poor deprived thing.

This thread has been very enlightening to me. I had no idea that folks adjusted their concept of what was right so rapidly to satisfy their entertainment needs. I've always been under the misconception that people adjusted their moral standards because of unfulfilled needs, but it appears it must be a very slippery slope if they also push the moral boundary to include fulfillment of casual desires.

[kaan]

Originally Posted by pking36330

Ah, but it's not that you can't get a Kindle, it's that you are not willing to spend the money to comply with Kindle restrictions. You could fly to the US, purchase your Kindle, PURCHASE and download 6-month's or a year's worth of books and fly home. But because this is expensive, you CHOOSE to obtain the same content illegally. You make a decision to satisfy your entertainment desires by robbing authors of their royalties due. You are probably furious at your cell phone carrier for trying to restrict your access to unlimit minutes that you 'need', and your cable TV provider for restricting access to premium channels you haven't paid for. Poor thing, some of your entertainment desires go unfulfilled because you can't circumvent those restrictions as easily as you can the access to illicit ebooks. You poor deprived thing.

This thread has been very enlightening to me. I had no idea that folks adjusted their concept of what was right so rapidly to satisfy their entertainment needs. I've always been under the misconception that people adjusted their moral standards because of unfulfilled needs, but it appears it must be a very slippery slope if they also push the moral boundary to include fulfillment of casual desires.

Oh, please ...

[kaan]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

If you check these forums there are plenty of legal ways to get the Kindle (so called US shopping service companies can help you for a fee) and the regionally restriced books (through gift certificates from other members).

I'm not sure that circumventing the installed barriers is legal either. I will look in to it though.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Fanas

Wireless only works in USA, kindle would be useless where I live.

Kindle also support USB loading so I wouldn't call it useless. Many parts of the USA do not have cell-phone coverage.

Dale

[Fanas]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Kindle also support USB loading so I wouldn't call it useless. Many parts of the USA do not have cell-phone coverage.

Dale

Well why else would I need kindle. Wireless wikipedia access is the only advantage of kindle, otherwise it sucks. If I ever have a chance to get such an amazing feature I will get it, no questions asked. You have no idea how often I need wikipedia, but don't have internet access.
http://xkcd.com/548/