Adobe ePub DRM cracked?

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With all due respect, I think the best way to "fight" DRM is not to buy from those publishers who use it. Buy books from those publishers "enlightened" enough to sell DRM-free material. Buying DRM-protected books and then removing the DRM sends entirely the wrong "message" to the publisher.

Where did you come up with the idea that it was wise to pursue only one tactic in a potential engagement?

Buy DRM free where what you want is available - as with fiction (always more books to read than you can afford or have time for anyway).
For textbooks where that is not necessary and option - remove the DRM.

The two tactics are in no way mutually exclusive.

[Barcey]

I think it's important that these cracks continue to happen. Non technical people just don't get it that all DRM can be broken unless it's demonstrated to them time and again. I've heard people argue that oh yeh that DRM was broken but it's not as sophisticated as Adobe.

Authors and Publishers need to understand that they might as well be paying the DRM vendors to write BOHICA across all the ebook covers. People buying the ebooks might not know what it means but sooner or later they're going to find out.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by doctorow

Can we agree that there is not a single known case of a person who has been held responsible for stripping DRM from a legally purchased e-book for personal use?

I don't know of any, but I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that that means that it's never happened anywhere in the world, ever. Are you making that claim?

I do agree that it's extremely unlikely that anything's going to happen to you if you remove DRM from a book for your own personal use.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Where did you come up with the idea that it was wise to pursue only one tactic in a potential engagement?

Because, as I keep saying, I think that the very act of buying a book with DRM sends entirely the wrong message to the publisher of that book. It's only by NOT buying from those publishers that they'll get the message that customers don't want DRM.

Are you so short of things to read that you HAVE to buy from such publishers?

[doctorow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know of any, but I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that that means that it's never happened anywhere in the world, ever. Are you making that claim?

No. And this is not the point. The point is that you cannot compare stripping of DRM from legally purchased e-books for personal use to such offenses as child abuse. The point is that you have no evidence whatsoever that a person who strips DRM from legally purchased e-books for personal use has anything to worry about. The point is that this discussion is blown out of proportion and that it seems some people simply enjoy to argue for argument's sake.

[doctorow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you so short of things to read that you HAVE to buy from such publishers?

How many publishers of current mainstream fiction are there who publish e-books without DRM?

[HarryT]

"Mainsteam fiction" isn't really my thing, so I'm not entirely sure, but I recall reading that at least one of the big publishers - (HarperCollins? Penguin?) were producing DRM-free books. Perhaps someone else recalls the details?

The stuff that I like reading myself - SF/Fantasy and "classics" - is easy available DRM-free.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by doctorow

The point is that you cannot compare stripping of DRM from legally purchased e-books for personal use to such offenses as child abuse.

Who is saying it is? I'm certainly not, despite the attempts of some to misrepresent what I said.

The point is that you have no evidence whatsoever that a person who strips DRM from legally purchased e-books for personal use has anything to worry about.

Has anyone said that they DO have something to worry about? I certainly haven't.

[doctorow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Mainsteam fiction" isn't really my thing,

How about you think about the average reader rather than about yourself before making general claims?

Originally Posted by HarryT

Who is saying it is? I'm certainly not, despite the attempts of some to misrepresent what I said.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was you who brought child abuse into the equation. How you could even think about such a thing while talking about e-books is beyond me.

Has anyone said that they DO have something to worry about? I certainly haven't.

No, you're right, you haven't.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Mainsteam fiction" isn't really my thing

Originally Posted by doctorow

How about you think about the average reader rather than about yourself before making general claims?

Huh... Harry said it wasn't "HIS" thing, referring 100% to himself. What does this have to do with the "average reader"?

BOb

[doctorow]

Nothing. I was referring to this post:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...586#post362586

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because, as I keep saying, I think that the very act of buying a book with DRM sends entirely the wrong message to the publisher of that book. It's only by NOT buying from those publishers that they'll get the message that customers don't want DRM.

Are you so short of things to read that you HAVE to buy from such publishers?

My example was textbooks. There are also other types of required professional text.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by doctorow

How about you think about the average reader rather than about yourself before making general claims?

The only "general claim" that I'm making is that to buy books with DRM gives the wrong message to publishers - that customers don't mind buying books with DRM. If you feel differently, that's fine with me; it's purely a personal viewpoint and I'm not asking you or anyone else to agree with me!

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was you who brought child abuse into the equation. How you could even think about such a thing while talking about e-books is beyond me.

We were talking about the case of someone who was arrested while entering the US for breaking Adobe DRM. I simply said that to be arrested for breaking the law in one country even though what you were doing was legal where you actually did it wasn't unique, and used the example of "sex tourism" as another example of such arrests being made (simply because it's something which crops up in the British press from time to time, and so is a thing which most people here are aware of). That is in no way whatseover "equating" the two activities.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Phogg

My example was textbooks. There are also other types of required professional text.

Many professional books do actually come with DRM-free eBooks included "for free" (or to be more precise, included in the price). I've recently bought a number of programming books which have come with a CD-ROM containing a DRM-free eBook version of the text. Microsoft Press do it a lot, and so do Sybex. I know that O'Reilly do a fair number of eBooks, too, but I'm not sure whether they have DRM or not.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because, as I keep saying, I think that the very act of buying a book with DRM sends entirely the wrong message to the publisher of that book. It's only by NOT buying from those publishers that they'll get the message that customers don't want DRM.

Are you so short of things to read that you HAVE to buy from such publishers?

I applaud your efforts but if the publishers want to know if people accept DRM or not they would sell the same content with or without DRM. The reality is they don't want to know the truth and they are happy to delude themselves that it doesn't matter. I believe that if I only purchase DRM free books they will just interpret it that I prefer that content.