Kindle to utilize epub format in late 2022

[oston]

Yes, you are right @jhowell, my understanding of the process was way off. Many thanks for the clarification.

It would seem that "kindlegen" creates a different version for the Kindle App than it does for the Kindle Paperwhite device.

Thanks also, @BSNB, for the references to the Guidelines. That might address those differences.

Jim

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by Quoth

It's totally reasonable for Amazon to only accept epub, or docx or whatever and not mobi (KF7), but there is zero reason for them to stop delivering/producing it as that costs nothing extra if it's an Internet download.

Not true, you have to maintain old code or refactor it to have it still working. This kind of technical dept can be quite expensive, especially if only a handful of people actually use it..

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Not true, you have to maintain old code or refactor it to have it still working. This kind of technical dept can be quite expensive, especially if only a handful of people actually use it..

Nonsense. What you are claiming only applies to old code on new platforms, like making Windows NT Notepad work on Windows 11 (Win9x Notepad was different code and max 64K files!). It doesn't apply to file conversions for HW & SW that hasn't changed in years. FW version 2.5.8 is the newest for any Kindles that don't do KF8, i.e. PDF or old mobi KF7 only (oldest is 3.4.3 for KF8 support).

I've 40 year old software that still does what it did then, now runs in DOSBOX.
Also Mobi hasn't changed at least since 2016, probably much earlier. It costs Amazon nearly nothing extra (if anything extra) to supply people than can only read mobi.
It's certainly more than a handful of people.

Many programs still support MS RTF, developed from 1987 until 2008, so MUCH older than mobi KF7 (2007 to 2016 approx on Kindle, maybe changes ceased earlier. The mobi format predates Kindle, but obviously only Kindle officially supports Amazon DRM version, azw not azw3).

[hleo12]

Unless Amazon is planning to make their future generations of Kindles drop mobi and azw, I also don't see why they needed to stop accepting mobi/azw files for conversion.

They still plan to support mobi/azw if you already have those books/documents in your library, so I don't see why it would be a cost cutting issue.

I'm more inclined to believe newer generations of Kindles won't read mobi/azw.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by oston

Yes, you are right @jhowell, my understanding of the process was way off. Many thanks for the clarification.

It would seem that "kindlegen" creates a different version for the Kindle App than it does for the Kindle Paperwhite device.

Thanks also, @BSNB, for the references to the Guidelines. That might address those differences.

Jim

The PaperWhite gets KF8 and the iOS Kindle app gets Mobi. Blame Amazon for the crappy iOS Kindle app.

[oston]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The PaperWhite gets KF8 and the iOS Kindle app gets Mobi. Blame Amazon for the crappy iOS Kindle app.

Thanks for the confirmation of what I've been seeing while testing different versions of the css file.

Does this mean that the kf8 file also "contains" the Mobi version and so delivers that version to the iOS app.

Is there a @media setting for the iOS device. I am not having any success with trying to use @media amzn-mobi to deliver a specific class for the Ipad app?

jim

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by hleo12

Unless Amazon is planning to make their future generations of Kindles drop mobi and azw, I also don't see why they needed to stop accepting mobi/azw files for conversion.

They still plan to support mobi/azw if you already have those books/documents in your library, so I don't see why it would be a cost cutting issue.

I'm more inclined to believe newer generations of Kindles won't read mobi/azw.

Amazon has a lot to lose if they drop MOBI. Many books that they have for sale are only available in MOBI format and would become unusable. The customer backlash would be terrible. Continuing to support MOBI keeps those books accessible and costs them practically nothing.

I think the change to no longer accept MOBI from outside sources is motivated by a different concern. It is about keeping control of their ecosystem by not allowing others to create and sell their proprietary formats.

Added: If I am right about this then I think it is possible that Amazon will disable side loading via USB in future Kindles. That would give them more control of the books read on their devices.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by oston

Thanks for the confirmation of what I've been seeing while testing different versions of the css file.

Does this mean that the kf8 file also "contains" the Mobi version and so delivers that version to the iOS app.

Is there a @media setting for the iOS device. I am not having any success with trying to use @media amzn-mobi to deliver a specific class for the Ipad app?

jim

The Kindle for iOS app does not support KF8 format most likely due to Apple’s restrictions on html rendering software. (KF8 is based on an outdated version of WebKit.) If you email an EPUB the iOS app will receive MOBI format.

The media query you mentioned is correct for targeting the iOS app. However almost all formatting is stripped out during conversion to MOBI since that format supports only a subset of HTML 3 so it might be ignored anyway.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The PaperWhite gets KF8 and the iOS Kindle app gets Mobi. Blame Amazon for the crappy iOS Kindle app.

Maybe blame Apple's walled garden. Perhaps Amazon is forced to do a crippled iOS app.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Maybe blame Apple's walled garden. Perhaps Amazon is forced to do a crippled iOS app.

Why would Amazon be forced to do a crippled iOS app when other apps can handle ePub?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by hleo12

Unless Amazon is planning to make their future generations of Kindles drop mobi and azw, I also don't see why they needed to stop accepting mobi/azw files for conversion.

They still plan to support mobi/azw if you already have those books/documents in your library, so I don't see why it would be a cost cutting issue.

I'm more inclined to believe newer generations of Kindles won't read mobi/azw.

My opinion is the reason that Amazon is dropping mobi for the email to device function is the same reason that they dropped relowable mobi as a usable format for KDP. By today's standards, reflowable mobi is a primitive format with very limited capabilities. It's much easier to take a newer format ebook file and generate a decent looking mobi file than it is to take a mobi file and generate a decent looking KF8/KFX/etc. file.

[hleo12]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Amazon has a lot to lose if they drop MOBI. Many books that they have for sale are only available in MOBI format and would become unusable. The customer backlash would be terrible. Continuing to support MOBI keeps those books accessible and costs them practically nothing.

I think the change to no longer accept MOBI from outside sources is motivated by a different concern. It is about keeping control of their ecosystem by not allowing others to create and sell their proprietary formats.

Added: If I am right about this then I think it is possible that Amazon will disable side loading via USB in future Kindles. That would give them more control of the books read on their devices.

Wouldn't it be better for them if they just converted those books to the newer formats?

As for newer Kindles possibly not having usb sideload option, that would truly be the end of me and Kindles

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by hleo12

Wouldn't it be better for them if they just converted those books to the newer formats?

Less cost to them and less chance of introducing new problems by just continuing to use the already developed renderers for the older formats. I only see that happening if the old rendering software becomes unmaintainable.

Originally Posted by hleo12

As for newer Kindles possibly not having usb sideload option, that would truly be the end of me and Kindles

You and many others here on MobileRead, though I doubt that it would bother the vast majority of Kindle users. I wonder what percentage of Kindle problems (and support costs) are caused by customers messing things up over USB.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by DNSB

My opinion is the reason that Amazon is dropping mobi for the email to device function is the same reason that they dropped relowable mobi as a usable format for KDP. By today's standards, reflowable mobi is a primitive format with very limited capabilities. It's much easier to take a newer format ebook file and generate a decent looking mobi file than it is to take a mobi file and generate a decent looking KF8/KFX/etc. file.

Yes.
There is a longer answer possible.

[hleo12]

Originally Posted by jhowell

You and many others here on MobileRead, though I doubt that it would bother the vast majority of Kindle users. I wonder what percentage of Kindle problems (and support costs) are caused by customers messing things up over USB.

It probably costs Amazon quite a few. Agents are waaaay too trigger happy to offer up replacements/discounts when they can't solve an issue (which 90% they can't).

The last problem I experienced, the amazon agent I chatted with just straight up said they could start the replacement process. I don't think they even checked my address and how I bought my Kindle. I don't know if they can even offer me a replacement because I don't have Amazon here, and I bought my Kindle not from Amazon (does Amazon offer replacement on Kindles when you didn't buy it directly from them?).