Cost of eBooks vs dead-tree books

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Trade Paperback is a format that should go away forever. It's larger, doesn't feel good holding it, and it was created so publishers could charge more then the do for Mass Market pBooks. Most bookshelves are not able to fit Trade but do fit MM. Plus, Trade takes up a lot more room because of the height.

Because Trade costs more, they can increase the price of the eBook. The publishers are out to get us. They used illegal tactics and got away with it.

This is another “eye of the beholder” issue. Advantages of trade paperbacks are that the print tends to be larger and the quality tends to be better, with the books more stable over time. Most of the MMPBs I’ve held on to over the years are unreadable, or almost. Yellowing, crumbling pages, glue in the binding gives way, and so forth. Those who want to keep books might well prefer to pay more for trades. I agree, however, that you don’t get the choice.

But what I really have to say is that publishers are not out to get us. That’s absurd. I’m not saying that they’re not trying to maximize profits (which is a fiduciary duty), but long term they’re not trying to alienate their customers. That’s a mug’s game. And if you feel you’re being taken advantage of, you’re free not to buy the product. This is the same situation as upthread. Anything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Trades can sell for more not because they cost more to produce, but because the perceived value to the purchaser is higher.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

But what I really have to say is that publishers are not out to get us. That’s absurd. I’m not saying that they’re not trying to maximize profits (which is a fiduciary duty), but long term they’re not trying to alienate their customers. That’s a mug’s game. And if you feel you’re being taken advantage of, you’re free not to buy the product. This is the same situation as upthread. Anything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Trades can sell for more not because they cost more to produce, but because the perceived value to the purchaser is higher.

Agency pricing was used to try to get Amazon and that had the side effect of getting the customer. Amazon is still here and a lot of little stores are gone. That's because of Agency. Agency does alienate a lot of customers.

And now with Covid-19 and a lot of people are not making enough money to buy Trade paperbacks.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Agency pricing was used to try to get Amazon and that had the side effect of getting the customer. Amazon is still here and a lot of little stores are gone. That's because of Agency. Agency does alienate a lot of customers.

And now with Covid-19 and a lot of people are not making enough money to buy Trade paperbacks.

Plenty of customers buy ebooks and audiobooks. Just because you hate that practice doesn't imply that every customer does. It just implies that you have become obsessive about it. Amazon has Amazon unlimited if cheap ebooks is your thing. You can even download PD books. There are price points out there for all taste. What you don't get is big name authors dirt cheap. I wish I could get Ribeye steaks for the cost of Ramen noodles. That doesn't imply that the butcher is over charging for steak. He's only over charging for steak if he has to throw steak away because no one is buying it. It's economics 101.

We were assured by some here that all the big authors were going to move to self publishing because publishers provided no value and charged too much. Hasn't happened and they have pretty much gone quiet on the assertion now that self publishing on Amazon has been a thing for a while. Some authors make good money as independents. Others are luck to sell a couple of books to their friends and family. Some authors are moving to setting up their own publishing companies, though their price points seem to be very close to the big 5 price points. Most of the big name authors stick with their publishers for the simple reason that they are making good money that way, get nice upfront payments and they like leaving everything except the writing to the publisher. For the authors that I read who set up their own publishing companies, it seems to be more of a control thing than a price thing.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Trade Paperback is a format that should go away forever. It's larger, doesn't feel good holding it, and it was created so publishers could charge more then the do for Mass Market pBooks. Most bookshelves are not able to fit Trade but do fit MM. Plus, Trade takes up a lot more room because of the height.

Hey, I agree with you!

[issybird]

If a hardbacks can fit on a book shelf, so can trades - and in fact, look much better than stacks of MMPBs.

It’s not the size of the book, it’s the size of the shelf. Surely there’s an absurdity in assuming that books need to accommodate the size of book shelves, rather than the reverse? It reminds me of when some kids in my class in elementary school thought New York was nicknamed the Empire State after the building.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most bookshelves are not able to fit Trade but do fit MM.

You need to check your pants as they are most likely on fire.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

If a hardbacks can fit on a book shelf, so can trades - and in fact, look much better than stacks of MMPBs.

It’s not the size of the book, it’s the size of the shelf. Surely there’s an absurdity in assuming that books need to accommodate the size of book shelves, rather than the reverse? It reminds me of when some kids in my class in elementary school thought New York was nicknamed the Empire State after the building.

If you already have your bookshelves sorted to accommodate MMPBs, then adding in TPs will not do. Some people do not buy HCs and didn't have a problem until TPs.

Sure most bookshelves can be adjusted, but what do you with the books that no longer fit? Maybe the publishers got together with the bookshelf makers to be able to sell more bookcases and be able to raiise the price of books.

Apple and the price fix six colluded on eBook prices and the Justice Department majorly botch the outcome of the trial. The punishment should have been to not allow agency ever. But since the publishers can set the eBook price based on the current pBook, TPs became the norm since the price was able to be raised and thus, eBook prices raised as well.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

You need to check your pants as they are most likely on fire.

You have your bookshelves set to fit the MMPBs you have and you buy TPs, how do you fit the TPs when you would have to take out a shelf or two of MMPBs?

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most bookshelves are not able to fit Trade but do fit MM.

Originally Posted by j.p.s

You need to check your pants as they are most likely on fire.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You have your bookshelves set to fit the MMPBs you have and you buy TPs, how do you fit the TPs when you would have to take out a shelf or two of MMPBs?

You have not provided proof of most. Most means more thAn half. Prove it or take it back.

(And none of my bookshelves are set to fit MMPBs. )

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you already have your bookshelves sorted to accommodate MMPBs, then adding in TPs will not do. Some people do not buy HCs and didn't have a problem until TPs.

Sure most bookshelves can be adjusted, but what do you with the books that no longer fit? Maybe the publishers got together with the bookshelf makers to be able to sell more bookcases and be able to raiise the price of books.

No point in being silly just for the sake of being silly.

If we’re going back to the dawn of time, it seems to me that MMPBs were originally intended to be disposable. Pocket-sized, cheaply made, and inexpensive. Whyever would bookshelves be designed to accommodate a throwaway? That you want to keep and display them has no bearing on the “proper” size of bookshelves. To argue along your lines. The reality is that something’s got to give. Most people make do. This is not a hill to die on.

Apple and the price fix six colluded on eBook prices and the Justice Department majorly botch the outcome of the trial. The punishment should have been to not allow agency ever. But since the publishers can set the eBook price based on the current pBook, TPs became the norm since the price was able to be raised and thus, eBook prices raised as well.

I think your timeline is in serious need of adjustment, frankly. As well as your sense of cause and effect. TPs came long before ebooks. And seriously, the price relationship between the two is at most tangential reflecting the extent a buyer is willing to substitute one for the other.

I’ll say it one more time. Ebook prices reflect what the publisher can get for them. They don’t have to jump through such torturous hoops to justify prices.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by Apache

How many threads have we had on this subject?
Apache

Originally Posted by issybird

I’ll say it one more time. Ebook prices reflect what the publisher can get for them.

I've been on a break and didn't bother to read this whole thread. These two quotes pretty much sum up my opinion!

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I've been on a break and didn't bother to read this whole thread. These two quotes pretty much sum up my opinion!

Yes, indeed!

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Some people do not buy HCs and didn't have a problem until TPs.

That's me.

Hardbacks are a terrible book format, I would never buy a fiction hardback, and I do have my shelves set to fit MMPBs. Trades are an annoyance, I either have to separate them out to separate shelves or put them on their sides.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

That's me.

Hardbacks are a terrible book format, I would never buy a fiction hardback, and I do have my shelves set to fit MMPBs. Trades are an annoyance, I either have to separate them out to separate shelves or put them on their sides.

Particularly annoying is when you have a series that's of mixed book sizes. Keeping them together just looks awful.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Particularly annoying is when you have a series that's of mixed book sizes. Keeping them together just looks awful.

Well said!