Why are YA novels immediately recognizable as YA novels?

[darryl]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Your 'pretentious work of literary fiction' is my deep, thoughtful, challenging novel that rewards the effort put into it.

As Rudyard Kipling observed "Four-fifths of everybody's work must be bad. But the remnant is worth the trouble for its own sake."

Each to their own Zod.

[Catlady]

Just read through the whole thread in one go.

Why are people pooh-poohing the YA label as "just marketing," as though that's a terrible sin? Of course it's marketing, just as any other label is marketing to a certain audience. What's wrong with offering a way of organizing the vast number of books into more manageable categories?

If a book has a photographic cover, a teenage protagonist, a school or family setting, and a first-person narrator, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that it's YA.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Why are people pooh-poohing the YA label as "just marketing," as though that's a terrible sin?

Mainly because it's "just marketing" that gives a potential reader next to no information about just how "adult" a book actually is. I've personally seen it applied (by the publisher) to works that contain material anywhere from middle-grade fluff to topics dealing with sex/rape and fairly graphic violence. That to me, is not a very useful label. Especially when I've seen some here suggest that YA's target audience can include 10 year-olds.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Mainly because it's "just marketing" that gives a potential reader next to no information about just how "adult" a book actually is. I've personally seen it applied (by the publisher) to works that contain material anywhere from middle-grade fluff to topics dealing with sex/rape and fairly graphic violence. That to me, is not a very useful label. Especially when I've seen some here suggest that YA's target audience can include 10 year-olds.

YA (and some middle grade) deals with dark topics because kids and teenagers are dealing with darkness in their lives, and reading is an excellent way to start to process those things. None of those topics necessarily disqualify a book from being appropriate for young readers. Further reading:

https://www.unlv.edu/news/article/qu...-adult-readers

https://themuse.jezebel.com/three-ya...ion-1701059484

https://www.wired.com/2011/06/ya-too-dark-i-think-not/

https://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/bo...s_yasaves.html

One of the key points that can differentiate YA books about these topics from (some) adult books is that the YA books, pretty much always, contain and/or end on notes of resistance and hope. Another is that it's not usually used in a gratuitous or fridging way in YA: things like sexual violence are typically treated as the central, important, traumatic subjects they are.

[pwalker8]

Of course, the real point of YA is that the publishers think that a particular book might appeal to a particular groups of people. I suppose that if there was a market for it, some publisher would start marketing books for OF (old farts) where one of the main characteristics was the book focused on how much better things were back in the day. Of course, then people would complain because their "back in the day" isn't the same as someone else's "back in the the day".

An individual book really can have different target audiences.

[Victoria]

Yes, marketing plays a part. But it’s a oversimplification to characterize a whole field of literature to “just marketing”. The category isn’t a recent tag of publishers. I took a course in ya and children’s literature in university 45 years ago. And the survey of published works reached back centuries.

So it’s one thing to say you don’t enjoy ya or find the term useful in helping you select a book. But generations of authors have specialized in ya, as many still do today. And achievements in the field are recognized through highly respected awards. So dismissing ya as just a marketing ploy is a bit of an overreach, I think

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Victoria

Yes, marketing plays a part. But it’s a oversimplification to characterize a whole field of literature to “just marketing”. The category isn’t a recent tag of publishers. I took a course in ya and children’s literature in university 45 years ago. And the survey of published works reached back centuries.

So it’s one thing to say you don’t enjoy ya or find the term useful in helping you select a book. But generations of authors have specialized in ya, as many still do today. And achievements in the field are recognized through highly respected awards. So dismissing ya as just a marketing ploy is a bit of an overreach, I think

The category existed 50 years ago but those books were written for a young audience whereas a lot of today's YA have the tag retroactively actively applied to titles that weren't written for young audiences and often don't really fit the category.When anything can be YA, there is no quick way to tell what is truely YA. Some are, many aren't, and the only what to tell the difference is to buy and read. Not helpful.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Mainly because it's "just marketing" that gives a potential reader next to no information about just how "adult" a book actually is. I've personally seen it applied (by the publisher) to works that contain material anywhere from middle-grade fluff to topics dealing with sex/rape and fairly graphic violence. That to me, is not a very useful label. Especially when I've seen some here suggest that YA's target audience can include 10 year-olds.

Neither do any of the other broad categories tell anyone much. Mystery/thriller can apply to Sherlock Holmes stories, cozy series, espionage novels, or domestic noir. Science fiction/fantasy can include anything from outer space tales to fairy tale retellings. Romances can range from sweet to borderline soft-core porn. It's not like YA is the only label, plus publishers often include a more specific age range on YA books.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Neither do any of the other broad categories tell anyone much. Mystery/thriller can apply to Sherlock Holmes stories, cozy series, espionage novels, or domestic noir. Science fiction/fantasy can include anything from outer space tales to fairy tale retellings. Romances can range from sweet to borderline soft-core porn. It's not like YA is the only label, plus publishers often include a more specific age range on YA books.

Maybe you didn't mean to, but you're helping prove my point just the same. All those other labels can get fuzzy, sure, but at least they tell me something about the book. YA doesn't tell me if there's a mystery at the heart of it--be it sherlockian, noir or cozy. YA doesn't tell me if it's science-fiction (or fantasy). YA doesn't tell me if it's Romance. Those other labels tell me at least something about the story. YA only tells me there's probably young protagonists and nothing more. And as has already been mentioned, there's plenty of non-YA books with young protags out there. So yes; those other labels still tell me much, much more about a book I'm thinking about reading than "YA" does.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Maybe you didn't mean to, but you're helping prove my point just the same. All those other labels can get fuzzy, sure, but at least they tell me something about the book. YA doesn't tell me if there's a mystery at the heart of it--be it sherlockian, noir or cozy. YA doesn't tell me if it's science-fiction (or fantasy). YA doesn't tell me if it's Romance. Those other labels tell me at least something about the story. YA only tells me there's probably young protagonists and nothing more. And as has already been mentioned, there's plenty of non-YA books with young protags out there. So yes; those other labels still tell me much, much more about a book I'm thinking about reading than "YA" does.

Doesn't YA appear in conjunction with those other labels?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

Doesn't YA appear in conjunction with those other labels?

Sometimes. And given the various opinions in this thread, that still doesn't add any clarification whatsoever. Is it YA because the protags are young(ish), or is it YA because it's written for young readers? If it's latter, then is it targeted at children, adolescents or older teenagers? If it's the former and not the latter, then why distinguish at all? The YA label only seems to add more questions for me when vetting potential purchases.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sometimes. And given the various opinions in this thread, that still doesn't add any clarification whatsoever. Is it YA because the protags are young(ish), or is it YA because it's written for young readers? If it's latter, then is it targeted at children, adolescents or older teenagers? If it's the former and not the latter, then why distinguish at all? The YA label only seems to add more questions for me when vetting potential purchases.

Maybe we should have YA-14 and YA-PG, etc for that.-) But then we already have the censorship tags. And there's the covers, too. Is the bodice ripped, and how much? And the title typeface. Those go to the original question of why they're so recognizable, in addition to the writing style.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sometimes. And given the various opinions in this thread, that still doesn't add any clarification whatsoever. Is it YA because the protags are young(ish), or is it YA because it's written for young readers? If it's latter, then is it targeted at children, adolescents or older teenagers? If it's the former and not the latter, then why distinguish at all? The YA label only seems to add more questions for me when vetting potential purchases.

As I already said, publishers generally add a specific age range.

As many others have already said, YA BOTH targets young readers AND features young protagonists. My understanding is that preteens and young teens generally like to read about characters who are a couple of years older than they are. So books aimed at the 10-12 age group might feature protagonists who are 12-14.

I really can't understand why this seems to be such a big deal for you. Most of us find the label helpful. If you don't, fine.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I really can't understand why this seems to be such a big deal for you. Most of us find the label helpful. If you don't, fine.

I don't find the label at all helpful. I suspect that most people don't, though like yourself I have zero evidence for my suspicion. Clearly there are people who find the label helpful, and I am free to ignore it, as annoying as that necessity sometimes is.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I really can't understand why this seems to be such a big deal for you. Most of us find the label helpful. If you don't, fine.

I've counted at least 4 or 5 in this thread who have indicated a similar opinion to mine, so I'd question your claim of "most of us." Especially since I'm not entirely sure who comprises your "us."

As for it being "such a big deal for me," all I can say is ... so what? We all have things that bother us more or less than others. Then we talk about those differences.