Screwed by Tor again... - Page 7

Taylor514ce · 08-21-2008, 09:16 AM

Thank you for asking if I'm serious. There is something I've hinted at and joked about around here (look up "passive emotifaction"), the tendency to ascribe emotions to posters based on one's own viewpoint. It's a fallacy to assume that I was in a berserker rage when I posted at Tor. Or that I'm an inarticulate howler, because my "nose is always in a book".

In fact, I think most people, when they post, are sitting calmly in their seats or during a brief lull at work, no matter what they write. They may not be distraught at all. My veins weren't distended when I posted that I felt Tor had screwed me over. I can say that sentence with a normal pulse and even a sardonic smile. So, it's amusing to see that post referred to as an inarticulate rant. Really? Ok. Maybe I'm not the one who needs to calm down, here.

So when I write that I get "mad" when a show I'm engrossed in suddenly ends with "See Part Two next week", it's fair for a reader to wonder if I'm serious. Mad? Really?

I say, take things at face value, without any emotional overlay of your own. You don't need to picture me as shaking with rage, howling "TOR!" like Captain Kirk's famous "KAHN!!!", nor me shouting abuse at a TV set.

Instead, realize that I was probably simply searching for something we've all experienced to which to compare the Tor e-book fiasco.

Yep, I feel like Tor screwed us all over. <-- typed very calmly, in between sips of coffee.

pshrynk · 08-21-2008, 09:22 AM

I'm looking for the YouTube video of Marvin throwing a cup at the TV, screaming, "TOOOOOOOOOORRRRRR!!!!"

Can't seem to find it, though.

zelda_pinwheel · 08-21-2008, 09:24 AM

i'd watch that video. do post the link, if you ever do find it.

GeoffC · 08-21-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

i'd watch that video. do post the link, if you ever do find it.

don't forget the sub-titles, although i'm sure anybody would be able to understand the "TOOOOOOOOOORRRRRR", not to be confused with Tora Tora....

rhadin · 08-21-2008, 09:30 AM

What disgruntles me is not so much that the sequels aren't currently available in ebook form but that (1) Tor won't disclose a target date when they expect to make the books available, (2) Tor has made at least 1, possibly more, of the sequels available in Kindle format (which leaves me out as a Sony owner and which makes me wonder why if they could create a Kindle version they couldn't make other versions of the same book), and (3) the refusal of customer service to even acknowledge receipt of e-mails asking about availability -- even if the answers are vague.

If I knew that Tor planned to start rolling out ebooks beginning on October 31 and weekly thereafter, I would calendar that date to begin looking for the books that interest me and I would be happy enough (of course, if they told me it would be October 31, 2012, I wouldn't be soothed at all!). Tor could so easily resolve this "problem" simply by giving realistic target dates (even if they slip a little) and by teaching customer service to acknowledge inquiries.

Taylor514ce · 08-21-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

Taylor, I don't think the people at Tor like us at MR very well.

Well, they don't like everyone rushing over, jumping to my defense, without giving the site a chance. Objectively, I can understand that. I'm not in a war with TOR's Web 2.0 site. There are even things I like about it. The artwork is amazing, and reading author blogs is kind of cool.

TOR's bungled promotion of the site, and their surly, bruised attitude about it, and my own feeling that they screwed over the "e-book community", are separate issues. I'm not picketing the site, and won't think any less of my beloved MR friends if I see them over there having a good time.

While Torie fumbled the ball, that doesn't mean she's a horrible person. She could be a wonderful person. She's kind of cute, too, don't you think?

And PNH... ok, yeah... well.

JSWolf · 08-21-2008, 10:03 AM

I posted in the TOR's lack of follow though with ebooks posting on Tor's website. Have a read. I think I asked some very appropriate questions to Torie. Let's see how she answers them.

Taylor514ce · 08-21-2008, 10:09 AM

I read it. I think you'll get the same answer they've already given, which is "we've said all we've got to say on the topic". I also think the questions will be viewed as a deliberate, antagonistic provocation. And it'll probably be pablo answering, rather than Torie.

JSWolf · 08-21-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

I read it. I think you'll get the same answer they've already given, which is "we've said all we've got to say on the topic". I also think the questions will be viewed as a deliberate, antagonistic provocation. And it'll probably be pablo answering, rather than Torie.

I don't see my questions as antagonistic. It's just trying to find out what's going out without seeming to be upset about it. I do hope they deem to answer them. If they don't and do not give a good reason why not, it'll look bad for them.

Taylor514ce · 08-21-2008, 10:26 AM

I don't think the questions are antagonistic, either. They are the questions we've all been asking! But they'll likely perceive them to be so. Step outside of the situation a bit, and you can easily see their viewpoint, which is basically: "When we're ready to answer the questions, we'll issue a press release. The answers won't come in a blog comment. Stop asking."

I'm not a TOR apologist, far from it. My stance on the issue is abundantly clear. I'm just, well, basically, kind of bored with the topic. Good luck over there. Has anyone seen my llama?

TheLongshot · 08-21-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

What disgruntles me is not so much that the sequels aren't currently available in ebook form but that (1) Tor won't disclose a target date when they expect to make the books available, (2) Tor has made at least 1, possibly more, of the sequels available in Kindle format (which leaves me out as a Sony owner and which makes me wonder why if they could create a Kindle version they couldn't make other versions of the same book), and (3) the refusal of customer service to even acknowledge receipt of e-mails asking about availability -- even if the answers are vague.

If I knew that Tor planned to start rolling out ebooks beginning on October 31 and weekly thereafter, I would calendar that date to begin looking for the books that interest me and I would be happy enough (of course, if they told me it would be October 31, 2012, I wouldn't be soothed at all!). Tor could so easily resolve this "problem" simply by giving realistic target dates (even if they slip a little) and by teaching customer service to acknowledge inquiries.

You are assuming that TOR has a target date of some sort. It seems obvious that there are some impediments that they are trying to work out.

Considering that when they started this promotion it seemed pretty obvious that they weren't very savvy about E-Book formats (with the first book being released in PDF only), I doubt that TOR had any plans on the table to release e-books. One of the benefits of this promotion is that they got a lot of feedback and may have pushed forward plans to release e-books where there weren't any plans before.

Some have suggested that this is a misstep, but when the vast majority still read p-books and prefer to read p-books, that is where the focus is going to be. Like it or not, we are the minority.

Jason

slayda · 08-21-2008, 10:57 AM

I wonder if some (maybe many) of the people who work for Tor believed there was a "target date" and the freebies were planned based on that belief. When Tor Publishing missed that date and refused to provide any other information (in order to not again raise false hopes) the "believers" were embarrassed and when we asked (perhaps somewhat belligerently) when we could buy ebooks, they took out their frustration on us.

My reason for suggesting this is, after more than 30 years of marriage, I had an epiphany about arguments - I told my wife that the times I got most angry with her was when I knew that I was wrong.

If the people at Tor.com really meant to have ebooks available at the end of their giveaway, they may have been in a similar state. They were wrong, got caught being wrong, were embarrassed and instead of admitting they made a mistake, became angry with us. As we kept on (being logical) with our questions/requests, they became more angry & things snow balled from there.

slayda · 08-21-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

What disgruntles me is not so much that the sequels aren't currently available in ebook form but that (1) Tor won't disclose a target date when they expect to make the books available, (2) Tor has made at least 1, possibly more, of the sequels available in Kindle format (which leaves me out as a Sony owner and which makes me wonder why if they could create a Kindle version they couldn't make other versions of the same book), and (3) the refusal of customer service to even acknowledge receipt of e-mails asking about availability -- even if the answers are vague.

If I knew that Tor planned to start rolling out ebooks beginning on October 31 and weekly thereafter, I would calendar that date to begin looking for the books that interest me and I would be happy enough (of course, if they told me it would be October 31, 2012, I wouldn't be soothed at all!). Tor could so easily resolve this "problem" simply by giving realistic target dates (even if they slip a little) and by teaching customer service to acknowledge inquiries.

The fact that they have made books available for the Kindle (and nothing else) frightens me more than it soothes me. Is Amazon making their own (monopolizing) deal with Tor and those of us who want ebooks but don't have Kindles are to be left out of an opportunity to purchase them sans Kindle?

Note: this is not a conclusion, just a question in my mind.

acidzebra · 08-21-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

If the people at Tor.com really meant to have ebooks available at the end of their giveaway, they may have been in a similar state. They were wrong, got caught being wrong, were embarrassed and instead of admitting they made a mistake, became angry with us. As we kept on (being logical) with our questions/requests, they became more angry & things snow balled from there.

Well, I am still a little puzzled at why people are upset over getting free stuff, even if that stuff was part of a series of more stuff which is currently not available in e-format. I'm a little puzzled about the logic employed in several of the threads. I'm a little puzzled at the (IMO false) sense of entitlement I got from some of the posts. I'm a little puzzled why so many people seemed to think tor.com would be an ebook outlet of some kind.

RickyMaveety · 08-21-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

Well, they don't like everyone rushing over, jumping to my defense, without giving the site a chance. Objectively, I can understand that. I'm not in a war with TOR's Web 2.0 site. There are even things I like about it. The artwork is amazing, and reading author blogs is kind of cool.

TOR's bungled promotion of the site, and their surly, bruised attitude about it, and my own feeling that they screwed over the "e-book community", are separate issues. I'm not picketing the site, and won't think any less of my beloved MR friends if I see them over there having a good time.

While Torie fumbled the ball, that doesn't mean she's a horrible person. She could be a wonderful person. She's kind of cute, too, don't you think?

And PNH... ok, yeah... well.

Honestly?? No. But, it's ok with me if you think so.

08-21-2008, 09:16 AM	#91
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	Thank you for asking if I'm serious. There is something I've hinted at and joked about around here (look up "passive emotifaction"), the tendency to ascribe emotions to posters based on one's own viewpoint. It's a fallacy to assume that I was in a berserker rage when I posted at Tor. Or that I'm an inarticulate howler, because my "nose is always in a book". In fact, I think most people, when they post, are sitting calmly in their seats or during a brief lull at work, no matter what they write. They may not be distraught at all. My veins weren't distended when I posted that I felt Tor had screwed me over. I can say that sentence with a normal pulse and even a sardonic smile. So, it's amusing to see that post referred to as an inarticulate rant. Really? Ok. Maybe I'm not the one who needs to calm down, here. So when I write that I get "mad" when a show I'm engrossed in suddenly ends with "See Part Two next week", it's fair for a reader to wonder if I'm serious. Mad? Really? I say, take things at face value, without any emotional overlay of your own. You don't need to picture me as shaking with rage, howling "TOR!" like Captain Kirk's famous "KAHN!!!", nor me shouting abuse at a TV set. Instead, realize that I was probably simply searching for something we've all experienced to which to compare the Tor e-book fiasco. Yep, I feel like Tor screwed us all over. <-- typed very calmly, in between sips of coffee. Last edited by Taylor514ce; 08-21-2008 at 09:24 AM.

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08-21-2008, 09:22 AM	#92
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	I'm looking for the YouTube video of Marvin throwing a cup at the TV, screaming, "TOOOOOOOOOORRRRRR!!!!" Can't seem to find it, though.

08-21-2008, 09:24 AM	#93
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	i'd watch that video. do post the link, if you ever do find it.

08-21-2008, 09:30 AM	#95
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	What disgruntles me is not so much that the sequels aren't currently available in ebook form but that (1) Tor won't disclose a target date when they expect to make the books available, (2) Tor has made at least 1, possibly more, of the sequels available in Kindle format (which leaves me out as a Sony owner and which makes me wonder why if they could create a Kindle version they couldn't make other versions of the same book), and (3) the refusal of customer service to even acknowledge receipt of e-mails asking about availability -- even if the answers are vague. If I knew that Tor planned to start rolling out ebooks beginning on October 31 and weekly thereafter, I would calendar that date to begin looking for the books that interest me and I would be happy enough (of course, if they told me it would be October 31, 2012, I wouldn't be soothed at all!). Tor could so easily resolve this "problem" simply by giving realistic target dates (even if they slip a little) and by teaching customer service to acknowledge inquiries.

08-21-2008, 10:03 AM	#97
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I posted in the TOR's lack of follow though with ebooks posting on Tor's website. Have a read. I think I asked some very appropriate questions to Torie. Let's see how she answers them.

08-21-2008, 10:09 AM	#98
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	I read it. I think you'll get the same answer they've already given, which is "we've said all we've got to say on the topic". I also think the questions will be viewed as a deliberate, antagonistic provocation. And it'll probably be pablo answering, rather than Torie.

08-21-2008, 10:26 AM	#100
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	I don't think the questions are antagonistic, either. They are the questions we've all been asking! But they'll likely perceive them to be so. Step outside of the situation a bit, and you can easily see their viewpoint, which is basically: "When we're ready to answer the questions, we'll issue a press release. The answers won't come in a blog comment. Stop asking." I'm not a TOR apologist, far from it. My stance on the issue is abundantly clear. I'm just, well, basically, kind of bored with the topic. Good luck over there. Has anyone seen my llama?

08-21-2008, 10:57 AM	#102
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	I wonder if some (maybe many) of the people who work for Tor believed there was a "target date" and the freebies were planned based on that belief. When Tor Publishing missed that date and refused to provide any other information (in order to not again raise false hopes) the "believers" were embarrassed and when we asked (perhaps somewhat belligerently) when we could buy ebooks, they took out their frustration on us. My reason for suggesting this is, after more than 30 years of marriage, I had an epiphany about arguments - I told my wife that the times I got most angry with her was when I knew that I was wrong. If the people at Tor.com really meant to have ebooks available at the end of their giveaway, they may have been in a similar state. They were wrong, got caught being wrong, were embarrassed and instead of admitting they made a mistake, became angry with us. As we kept on (being logical) with our questions/requests, they became more angry & things snow balled from there.

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