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Old 10-17-2016, 03:19 PM   #91
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A little of both on my part.

But if literally no one declares these "books for review" transactions (with zero repercussions), then it can hardly be considered "required" to do so, in my opinion.

I've mentioned a few times, now, that I'm waiting to hear from someone who declares this sort of thing (from either end of the transaction).
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:45 AM   #92
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Back to the subject of the validity of reviews for (e)books received at no charge...

I've reviewed several ebooks that I got for free. In some cases, I got them at no cost from the author - and some of those were beta-reading gigs. Certainly it strikes me as unethical not to disclose that kind of relationship with the author; there is a certain instinctive pressure not to say bad things about someone who's done me the favor of giving me free reading material. In the rare cases where my review of those copies would be negative, I've usually solved the conundrum by emailing the author with the offer to either post the review or not - but in no case would I dishonestly review the book. However, in the case of free-or-discounted public availability, I got it like any other member of the public and am under no obligation to spare your feelings.

What I try to do with all of my reviews is rate a book on three factors: story content, structural and grammatical content, and standard ebook price. In other words: was it interesting, did it need editing, and is it worth the price? (Hmm. Put that way, it sounds like I'm judging Cutthroat Kitchen.) I generally start out with the story rating, dock points if it needed edits, and adjust that result for pricing. I usually try to say something nice about the book, because there was some factor that caught my eye and made me read it. Unfortunately, sometimes the best I can do is along the lines of "I really wanted to like this."

For instance, suppose I get a story that's 90 pages long, normally $6.99, but it's on sale for free or 99 cents. I can tell you right away that there's no way I'm giving it five stars; the normal price is too high for that little content. I start reading, and the story's good - better than average, no obvious continuity flaws, but not stellar - but the grammar's awful. Not just "a few misplaced commas" bad, but "a monarch does not rain over a kingdom, and the punctuation makes my eyes bleed" bad. I hate giving out one-star ratings, but I'd be hard-pressed not to do so in that case: four stars for the story, minus two for horrible craft, minus one for the price. I might be generous and give it two stars if I particularly liked the story, but I'd justify it as rounding a 1.5 up. (Just as I feel five-stars should be reserved for truly excellent work, I save one-stars for hideously awful crap.) And I'd spell out that breakdown.

The way I see it, if I'm using that sort of standard for my own reviews, the source shouldn't matter too much. If anything, a "free for review" bias is likely to show up in the editing scale, where I might give the author a heads-up and a chance to fix the problems. That happened a while back, where I started reading a FFR book and contacted the author after a couple of chapters. I'd found several severe mechanical problems that would necessitate a bad review, including a spoilerific preface and a double flashback, and I honored the request that I not proceed further. I still hope the author does a rewrite; the story looked like it had potential.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:45 AM   #93
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Moderators, I'd like to report Rev Bob's post as being too too on-topic, and interfering with the flow of our wild tangent.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:20 AM   #94
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Moderators, I'd like to report Rev Bob's post as being too too on-topic, and interfering with the flow of our wild tangent.
Isn't Wild Tangent a videogame company?
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:31 AM   #95
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Isn't Wild Tangent a videogame company?
NOW you're one of us!
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:56 PM   #96
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The way I see it, if I'm using that sort of standard for my own reviews, the source shouldn't matter too much. If anything, a "free for review" bias is likely to show up in the editing scale, where I might give the author a heads-up and a chance to fix the problems. That happened a while back, where I started reading a FFR book and contacted the author after a couple of chapters. I'd found several severe mechanical problems that would necessitate a bad review, including a spoilerific preface and a double flashback, and I honored the request that I not proceed further. I still hope the author does a rewrite; the story looked like it had potential.
Don't you think that potential buyers deserve to be told about such issues? There's surely more need to post a review warning people about such problems than one simply saying "It's OK", isn't there? That was precisely the point I made at the start of the thread about getting the book free introducing bias. Your bias of not posting a bad review of a flawed product is doing people who pay money for it a disservice, to my mind.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:00 PM   #97
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Don't you think that potential buyers deserve to be told about such issues? There's surely more need to post a review warning people about such problems than one simply saying "It's OK", isn't there? That was precisely the point I made at the start of the thread about getting the book free introducing bias. Your bias of not posting a bad review of a flawed product is doing people who pay money for it a disservice, to my mind.
I didn't post a review of any kind in that instance. I set the book aside unfinished, and I don't make a practice of reviewing books I've barely started.

Figure it like this. Suppose you see a book on Amazon that looks interesting, so you "look inside" to check out the first few pages. They're not to your taste. Do you post a review?
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:46 PM   #98
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I didn't post a review of any kind in that instance. I set the book aside unfinished, and I don't make a practice of reviewing books I've barely started.

Figure it like this. Suppose you see a book on Amazon that looks interesting, so you "look inside" to check out the first few pages. They're not to your taste. Do you post a review?
Just not to my taste? Perhaps not. I'd add it to my DNF shelf on GR and note in the review space there though. I have friends and community there who my taste aligns almost identically with, and they might find that info useful (and I have in the past.)

But I've certainly posted poor reviews based on the "Look Inside". You don't need to eat more than a few bites of a poorly cooked meal to know it's no good, and it doesn't take more than a few pages of a poorly written book to figure out the same. I'd write one if the problem is bad editing, illiterate writing (on the "He had always put her on a pedal stool" variety), poor formatting (books are a consumer product as well as an art form, I think formatting that's bad enough it makes reading difficult is relevant).

I did actually write one review on GR that was more or less based on the first page - the writing was so atrociously awful that dissecting the first paragraph was enough, really. That author publicly threatened me with criminal proceedings in one of the official GR feedback groups. I'm not sure on what grounds, or in which jurisdiction they were going to try that on with, but the threat was made.

That kind of reaction, and it wasn't the only time that kind of crap has happened, is why I won't accept books directly from authors or in general interact directly with authors at all. I still review Netgalley books now and then, and even there only from trad publishers, who really (really) don't care if you don't review positively all the time.

Getting books through publishers adds a layer of abstraction and distance that just makes me more comfortable. Though I never did feel any obligation to review authors who sent me books directly positively, or cut them any slack, but apparently those authors often tend to feel that way.

Their loss (or not, my GR reviews are hardly Kirkus or the NYRB).
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:23 PM   #99
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Why accept books for review at all? Why not just buy the books you want to review? There seems to be a lot of "all the cool kids are reviewing advance copies they got got for free" going on at Goodreads. I know it's great for the authors, but there's no huge benefit for the reader, in my opinion. No one really buys a book on release day unless it's written by an author they already like anyway. So why the rush to read/review the book before anyone else? I would think a hobby reviewer who took pride in their reviews would want to remove any taint of bias (free book bias, anyway) and simply buy the books they're interested in reviewing. The other stuff is just a weird game people get wrapped up in.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:35 PM   #100
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It's not one or the other. I buy a ton of books and I review nearly everything I read. I don't buy books "to review them", and I don't request books from NetGalley that I wouldn't be likely to buy when it comes out anyway.

On the other hand, books are expensive. Publishers are happy to send them to me for free, and don't particularly care how (or even if) I review them. I'm not going to say no to that.

Especially if they are going to skip Netgalley and just directly send me book 4 of a series I'm reading (that I totally would have bought anyway - when it came out in 6 months time), and they stick debut book by a new-but-similar author in the box in hopes I might like it. And then stick a couple more books in there because the box isn't overweight yet and if you're going to send a box of books to Sweden, may as well fill it.

But again: I don't read books to review them. I review books I read, and I don't particularly care if I got them from the library, a store, or I came home to a surprise box on my doorstep.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:50 PM   #101
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But again: I don't read books to review them. I review books I read, and I don't particularly care if I got them from the library, a store, or I came home to a surprise box on my doorstep.
Fair enough.
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:01 PM   #102
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Why accept books for review at all? Why not just buy the books you want to review? There seems to be a lot of "all the cool kids are reviewing advance copies they got got for free" going on at Goodreads. I know it's great for the authors, but there's no huge benefit for the reader, in my opinion. No one really buys a book on release day unless it's written by an author they already like anyway. So why the rush to read/review the book before anyone else? I would think a hobby reviewer who took pride in their reviews would want to remove any taint of bias (free book bias, anyway) and simply buy the books they're interested in reviewing. The other stuff is just a weird game people get wrapped up in.
Part of that is "I got it free and you have to pay. The author likes me" on Goodreads.

Yes, books can get expensive. So getting a free book from a favorite author is a help.

Now I have received books for review, proofreading and beta reading.
All three get to be a job unless the story or stories are really good.
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:26 AM   #103
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But I've certainly posted poor reviews based on the "Look Inside". You don't need to eat more than a few bites of a poorly cooked meal to know it's no good, and it doesn't take more than a few pages of a poorly written book to figure out the same. I'd write one if the problem is bad editing, illiterate writing (on the "He had always put her on a pedal stool" variety), poor formatting (books are a consumer product as well as an art form, I think formatting that's bad enough it makes reading difficult is relevant).
You are, of course, free to do that. To repurpose your metaphor, I see posting a review based on a preview as akin to judging a five-course meal based on the appetizer. For instance, I've seen several books where the editing gets noticably worse in the sex scenes - a problem that you probably won't see if you go by a front-of-book sample.

I'm not saying I'd never review a book I didn't finish, but it's not my usual practice. That's true for both positive and negative reviews, too; I remember a couple of times where the very end made or broke the whole thing. (My favorite example is the movie adaptation of Pet Sematary, which I always say was 30 seconds too long.)
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:33 AM   #104
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Whether the statement is right or wrong, though, if the reviewer themselves considers it to be barter (i.e. that the review was provided in exchange for the book, rather than the book being a gift), the IRS requires them to declare it on their tax return on the basis of that belief.
Surely this would have cropped up with giant megacorps who outsource beta testing in exchange for software? My reasoning is, if it's OK for Microsoft it's fine for everyone else, or are you suggesting that Microsoft declares the going rate for beta testers on it's tax return?

On a side note, does anyone know how I apply for Starbucks tax rate?.
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Old 10-19-2016, 05:43 AM   #105
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Surely this would have cropped up with giant megacorps who outsource beta testing in exchange for software? My reasoning is, if it's OK for Microsoft it's fine for everyone else, or are you suggesting that Microsoft declares the going rate for beta testers on it's tax return?
I've absolutely no idea, I'm afraid. Presumably they employ lawyers who know more about such things than you or I do .
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