Kbook: My new favourite rip-off "publisher"

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

I've just found an ebook on the Kobo site which I think takes the prize for dishonest conduct. The ebook is The Queen of Hearts, by Wilkie Collins.

- It is a direct copy of the Project Gutenberg Australia text version, complete with the PGA logo.

Not removing the PGA stuff is in conflict with Project Gutenberg's T&C

[eschwartz]

I think it should be suggested in the Upload Help guidelines sticky that people can take the opportunity to submit their books to the ebookstores as well. A little extra encouragement can help to prevent this from happening again and I am sure there are uploaders who would do so if they only thought of it.

Of course, I really want an opt-in for MobileRead to operate as a "publisher" of the E-Book Uploads stuff, but someone would have to be willing to do that job.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Not removing the PGA stuff is in conflict with Project Gutenberg's T&C

I don't agree, especially as I have acknowledged the source, edited it for typos etc, and am not charging for the ebook.

[Manabi]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

I don't agree, especially as I have acknowledged the source, edited it for typos etc, and am not charging for the ebook.

I think it was referring to the book you found that left PGA's logo in the e-book put up on Kobo. I found this searching for the guidelines:

If you want to use the name Project Gutenberg anywhere in the ebooks you distribute or on the distribution medium or in advertising you have to obey these rules:

• you may only distribute verbatim copies of the ebooks. No changes are allowed to the ebook contents. (Though reformatting the ebook to a different file format is considered okay).
• If you charge money for the copies you distribute, you have to pay royalties to Project Gutenberg.
• You must refund your clients for defective copies or if they don't agree with the Project Gutenberg license.

If you don't agree with any of the above mentioned restrictions, you may not use the Project Gutenberg trademark. You may still distribute the ebooks if you strip the Project Gutenberg license and all references to Project Gutenberg.

Since that book had the PGA logo, but wasn't entirely verbatim (different cover), that probably violates the first bullet. And there's pretty much zero chance they were paying royalties to PGA so that violates the second. Kinda doubt they followed third one either.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by Manabi

I think it was referring to the book you found that left PGA's logo in the e-book put up on Kobo. I found this searching for the guidelines:


Since that book had the PGA logo, but wasn't entirely verbatim (different cover), that probably violates the first bullet. And there's pretty much zero chance they were paying royalties to PGA so that violates the second. Kinda doubt they followed third one either.

Yep and looking, that applies to AlexBell too since his "I have acknowledged the source" means Catch 22 is invoked - "Project Gutenberg anywhere in the ebooks " means only verbatim copies are permitted.

[Manabi]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Yep and looking, that applies to AlexBell too since his "I have acknowledged the source" means Catch 22 is invoked - "Project Gutenberg anywhere in the ebooks " means only verbatim copies are permitted.

Would probably work better to put a line like "To see source credits, visit this webpage: http://blah.com/" where the URL is a page you control (not pointing directly at PGA's page for the book, since that'd have their name in the URL). That way you can properly credit them, without actually mentioning their name in the book itself.

[murg]

Originally Posted by Manabi

Would probably work better to put a line like "To see source credits, visit this webpage: http://blah.com/" where the URL is a page you control (not pointing directly at PGA's page for the book, since that'd have their name in the URL). That way you can properly credit them, without actually mentioning their name in the book itself.

Actually, they don't have their trademarked name in their URL: Gutenberg.org

The trademarked name is : Project Gutenberg

[AlexBell]

Thanks for the responses. I have some thinking to do. I think I'll try to contact Project Gutenberg directly and see if we can agree on the words to use.

Although I have said that the source text was PG so and so I certainly haven't claimed that the end result in the ebooks I've produced is a facsimile of the PG file. It would be silly to force me to not give them credit.

[Calenorn]

Originally Posted by crich70

I have to wonder if any of the books that I've uploaded here at Mobileread have made their way to Kobo as well.
....
For someone to then take them and use them to make $ for themselves isn't right. If anyone should make $ off of the ebooks you uploaded it's you the creator of that copy, not someone who just comes along and grabs them up. Granted PG does allow for such to be done, but this is Mobileread not Gutenberg. People should respect other people's work.

Sorry, crich, I noticed that Kbook wanker selling your Kingston Omnibus volumes at the Kobo store:

https://store.kobobooks.com/en-US/eb...-omnibus-vol-2

Same book, for sure. Looks like he even copied the list of titles (no caps in titles) from the forum here and pasted it into the product description. Now that's brassy!

He wants $2.85 per. I hope he chokes on it.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by Calenorn

Sorry, crich, I noticed that Kbook wanker selling your Kingston Omnibus volumes at the Kobo store:

https://store.kobobooks.com/en-US/eb...-omnibus-vol-2

Same book, for sure. Looks like he even copied the list of titles (no caps in titles) from the forum here and pasted it into the product description. Now that's brassy!

He wants $2.85 per. I hope he chokes on it.

I am even more angry that those people who steal from the MR library and upload it to Kobo almost always make a shambles of the ebook they have stolen.

I wonder if I could suggest that there are some more effective things one can do other than hoping someone chokes on their ill gotten gains.

I think you'll find that one of kbook's rules is to the effect that if an upload contains PB material anyone can do anything they like to it.

But I have had some limited success by lodging a complaint and giving evidence that the thief has used non-PD material that I added to the ebook.

I and other people have reviewed ebooks containing stolen material and given them one star reviews on the basis that the book was stolen from the free MR library - and some people at least have found those reviews helpful.

And rightly or wrongly anything I upload to the MR library I now upload to Kobo - for free of course. Kobo customers may as well get the original as is and free rather than something stolen, damaged, and charged for.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

{...}

I think you'll find that one of kbook's rules is to the effect that if an upload contains PB material anyone can do anything they like to it.

But I have had some limited success by lodging a complaint and giving evidence that the thief has used non-PD material that I added to the ebook.

Can you cite the exact rule ?

Obviously "contains" implies additional material may be present as footnotes, introduction or afterword.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Can you cite the exact rule ?

Obviously "contains" implies additional material may be present as footnotes, introduction or afterword.

No, I'm sorry, I can't. What I wrote is my memory of an initial reply to a complaint. There may be something in Kobo Writing Life terms and conditions; I'll get back to you if I find it.

[Little.Egret]

More the other way about it would seem

https://merch.kobobooks.com/writingl...Agreement.html

5.1 You represent, warrant and covenant to Kobo that {...} does not {..} infringe upon the intellectual property rights of any person, including the author of the Works;
{...} no material in the Works violates any intellectual property rights or any other proprietary rights of any person, firm or corporation {...}

But thanks for drawing attention to

SECTION 7. CONFIDENTIALITY.

You will not issue any press release or any other public disclosure about these Terms and your participation in Kobo Writing Life without our consent

[Manabi]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

I and other people have reviewed ebooks containing stolen material and given them one star reviews on the basis that the book was stolen from the free MR library - and some people at least have found those reviews helpful.

I've voted the ones helpful I saw linked in this thread, just to help draw attention to them. Any others that get linked, I'll also vote helpful for the same reason. Or you can just toss me a PM with the links, I'll do the same. It's the least I can do to help out.

[skreutzer]

Please note that we're continuing this discussion here (sort of). Fortunately, at the time you guys discovered the uploads to Kobo Writing Life, my downloader wasn't developed yet.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Of course, I really want an opt-in for MobileRead to operate as a "publisher" of the E-Book Uploads stuff, but someone would have to be willing to do that job.

I would be interested to look into it, if

• No manual labor is involved in the uploading process, because a machine can do that much more efficient and I don't want to waste valuable lifetime for something that can be automated.
• The resulting software gets freely licensed (GNU AGPLv3 and any later version) and can be run on a freely licensed operating system environment.
• The e-books which run through the process are in an openly specified format which is supported by freely licensed implementations, no DRM gets applied to them by a distribution channel, and they're in the Public Domain and/or licensed under CC0 or CC BY-SA. Note that I have no plans to waste time on titles under NC clause, as having to wait another 100 years till a work can be distributed in print (come on, one can't give printed books away gratis), on sites which have advertisement on them or are otherwise involved in commercial action, can be installed on a device which is sold with the library on it, or services can be offered to improve the text, layout or whatever based on donations or crowdfunding etc.
• The uploads are not limited to just Kobo, but may include other distribution sites and channels as well.
• There is at least some minimal support by staff and the community, because there are legal, technical and organizational issues to resolve beforehand.
• I don't have to operate the software because I can't keep track about what liabilities mobileread has resolved or is prepared to take, and you guys are already doing it anyways. I would support the operation of course.

as I work on this topic anyway.

That said, I'm taking a slightly different approach to solve the same problem of scam offerings, which is not to license the original content restrictively in order to prevent people from doing useful things, but to make participating e-books entierely free, so the “official versions” can flood every shop, distribution channel and web site without legal risk. I would also like to encourage commercial exploitation, as long as such isn't carried out in a restrictive manner (libre, not necessarily gratis), with the intend and default to support mobileread and uploaders with earnings, if any (which doesn't prevent other parties from selling, but everyone would be able to undercut to their best ability, which may come down to gratis).

In the future, I imagine shops to be mere branding and curation anyway, and they'll hopefully all link to a common repository of libre digital texts, be it from mobileread or more likely the Internet Archive, which already archives your uploads with certain assumptions regarding legal permission.