Problems for Apple

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by taustin

So the merchant is paying the "card not present" fee when the customer is standing in front of them (and they would, therefore, usually pay the "card present" fee, which is lower)?

Apple may not be charging the merchant, but the merchant service is, from the wounds of it. And if it's more expensive, it's more expensive, regardless of who gets it.

Well, technically it is a card not present transaction because the card is not present, and the banks are giving Apple a cut because of the the security of the phone. But it's probably true that the card is in the user's wallet.

Originally Posted by taustin

While I agree it will never go entirely away, there are places that are getting very close. Only 3% of transactions in Sweden are cash these days, and bank robberies have dropped by an order of magnitude since 2008 because most banks don't handle cash any more. Even churches take plastic.

Apparently, Somaliland is the leading user of mobile payment systems these days.

http://www.totalpayments.org/2013/07...ess-countries/

That's an odd article; Somaliland is an autonomous region of Somalia and not recognized as an independent country by any other countries.

Yes, Sweden is almost a cash free society, and there are stores there that don't take cash. Germany, on the other hand, is closer to a cash-only society than anywhere else I've been. It's a strange juxtaposition.

(When I studied in Germany, my monthly stipend was paid in cash - I went to a particular office, showed ID, signed a book,and was handed approximately $1200 in marks. Which I very nervously carried to the bank and deposited.)

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by ApK

I've tried that but it always ends up getting us into trouble.
Now we're trying to use the debit card for everything, and keep the CC only for emergencies.

And we're trying hard to make sure stuff like "lobster dinner" or "bigger TV" doesn't get classified as 'emergencies.'

Do you think it would help if you set up your credit card to be automatically paid in full each month? I have mine set up that way and it does make me keep track because I have to make sure I have enough in my checking account when the bill is due.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Apple Pay Rival and Walmart-backed MCX Hacked, User Emails Snatched

Forbes seems to think there are only about 7 billionaires on the planet.

I cover technology and billionaires for the rest of the 99.9999999%.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Shane R

With the exception of the phone based security mechanisms (TouchID and the Secure Element)

Neither of which is new, either.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Well, technically it is a card not present transaction because the card is not present, and the banks are giving Apple a cut because of the the security of the phone. But it's probably true that the card is in the user's wallet.

And the bottom line is, well, the bottom line. If it gets run as card not present, it costs more. Not much more, mind you, but even a fraction of a percent times a hundred million transactions adds up. It's not hard to understand why really big merchants don't want to deal with that.

(Which isn't why they're pushing CurrentC so much, of course. But it's a reason, and one the public can easily understand without getting pissed off about it.)

[Shane R]

Originally Posted by taustin

And the bottom line is, well, the bottom line. If it gets run as card not present, it costs more. Not much more, mind you, but even a fraction of a percent times a hundred million transactions adds up. It's not hard to understand why really big merchants don't want to deal with that.

(Which isn't why they're pushing CurrentC so much, of course. But it's a reason, and one the public can easily understand without getting pissed off about it.)

I don't think the merchants are paying Apple anything for the use of Apple Pay at their stores. The merchants pay the banks and the the (card issuing) banks are the only ones who pay Apple anything. To the merchants, it's just another credit card with the same old processing fees they've always paid.

All in all, it seems like a good deal for Apple. The company is not carrying a lot of sensitive information on its servers, and, at the same time, it reportedly receives a cut of the Interchange Fees that banks make on each purchase. Apple itself has promised not to charge customers or merchants for using or supporting Apple Pay, although it's still unclear whether costs might be passed down to users in another way. As MasterCard's Sherri Haymond described, "What Apple's role is here is they're the technology platform provider, they're interacting with the consumer, but they're not in the middle of the payment flow at all. All they're doing is facilitating their assets to be transferred."

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...s-really-work/

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Forbes seems to think there are only about 7 billionaires on the planet.

That's WhaleMath™ in action, for you.
Lots of innumeracy in the media these days.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Shane R

I don't think the merchants are paying Apple anything for the use of Apple Pay at their stores. The merchants pay the banks and the the (card issuing) banks are the only ones who pay Apple anything. To the merchants, it's just another credit card with the same old processing fees they've always paid.

That is not actually clear. I've seen claims that it gets processed as a "card not present" transaction, which is not the same old processing feels they've always paid when the customer is standing in front of the cash register. It's not a lot more, but it is more. For a big retailer, like Walmart, it adds up to a lot of money.

[Shane R]

Originally Posted by taustin

That is not actually clear. I've seen claims that it gets processed as a "card not present" transaction, which is not the same old processing feels they've always paid when the customer is standing in front of the cash register. It's not a lot more, but it is more. For a big retailer, like Walmart, it adds up to a lot of money.

Those are still fees paid directly to the issuing banks as the merchants have always done. Nothing new has been invented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_no...nt_transaction

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

I've been hit 3 times in the last 8 or so years. It's a huge PITA.

Why is it a pain? They send you a new card, you destroy the old one, pay off the bill to the old one and life goes on.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Why is it a pain? They send you a new card, you destroy the old one, pay off the bill to the old one and life goes on.

Many of us have our cards on file for various autopayments and such. Changing them all is a pain.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Shane R

Those are still fees paid directly to the issuing banks as the merchants have always done.

That isn't the point. The point is, if you accept Apple Pay, you pay more. It doesn't matter whether you pay more to your own merchant service, to Apple, or to the man in the moon, you pay more.

Originally Posted by Shane R

Nothing new has been invented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_no...nt_transaction

If the customer is standing in front of your cash register, and uses a credit card, it is very nearly certain that it is a card present transaction, which costs less.

This isn't rocket science. It's really quite simple:

Customer uses credit card: you pay x.x%

Customer uses Apple Pay: You pay more than x.x%.

Is it that hard to understand?

[taustin]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Why is it a pain? They send you a new card, you destroy the old one, pay off the bill to the old one and

you go update every place that you use it, like recurring billing for your gym membership, subscriptions for web sites, etc.

[Shane R]

Originally Posted by taustin

That isn't the point. The point is, if you accept Apple Pay, you pay more. It doesn't matter whether you pay more to your own merchant service, to Apple, or to the man in the moon, you pay more.



If the customer is standing in front of your cash register, and uses a credit card, it is very nearly certain that it is a card present transaction, which costs less.

This isn't rocket science. It's really quite simple:

Customer uses credit card: you pay x.x%

Customer uses Apple Pay: You pay more than x.x%.

Is it that hard to understand?

As you said, it isn't exactly clear if it's a present or non-present transaction. We may never know. Are Amazon.com and BN.com transactions non-present transactions? They don't charge me extra for them - and none of the people testing Apple Pay in the media reported seeing extra charges for using it.

Apple has promised that it will never charge consumers, developers or merchants for Apple Pay use, so any extra cost exists in the relationship between the processor and merchants.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by taustin

you go update every place that you use it, like recurring billing for your gym membership, subscriptions for web sites, etc.

And you have to update it at B&N, which means you cannot read your books in ADE anymore.

Over in the B&N removed download option on all books in "My Nook" library thread, this has hit several people.