Amazon is destroying e-reader innovation

[kacir]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I don't know what what Touch Lux 2 costs, but I'm guessing at least two to two and half times the cost of the Paperwhite.

110Eur, plus, of course, 20% Value Added Tax here in Europe.

[Rizla]

There's a lot of talk here that e-reader(s) available in America are adequate for reading and that the tech is perfect for the job. But what if I want to read an A4 pdf on e-ink? Can't do it, not with an American e-reader. But I can do it with a large-format European / Asian e-reader.

The extremely limited choice of e-readers in America might satisfy your needs, but they don't satisfy mine.

In addition, I want to use a large e-ink screen to double as a computer monitor. European tech is approaching that. It's just a question of software. In America, nada. America has fallen behind. Amazon's dominance has stamped out progress.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Rizla

There's a lot of talk here that e-reader(s) available in America are adequate for reading and that the tech is perfect for the job. But what if I want to read an A4 pdf on e-ink? Can't do it, not with an American e-reader. But I can do it with a large-format European / Asian e-reader.

The extremely limited choice of e-readers in America might satisfy your needs, but they don't satisfy mine.

While I can understand your POV, Amazon did try to sell a 9.7 inch e-reader, even before the 9.7 inch tablets came onto the market. It sold so badly that they never updated it, and are even selling old stock up until now.

For people who think that the ones wanting an e-ink device are 'stuck and unwilling to change to a phone or tablet', I can only say: have I ever tried reading a book on a sunny day, outside, or while traveling in a bus or train, for example? As soon as I'm outside in the summer, my phone and tablet become unreadable, while my Kindle is just as readable as always (or better).

e-ink + front light = perfect reading device.

That's why I upgraded to the KPW as soon as I could get my hands on it; I had a Touch before, and I only upgraded because of the front light. For me, e-readers are already done. All the rest, such as GoodReads, WordBuilder, Pocket, Reading Life (on the Kobo) etc are just useless frills to me.

I want the device to hold books, display them, and give me adequate options to change the appearance of the books. The Kindle is adequate, while I like the Kobo better.

The one step up that would get me really excited now would be a 7 or 8 inch 4:3 full Android e-ink tablet, because the Android apps offer more customization regarding the appearance of a book than any e-reader has now. (I'd also go for a 10 or 11 inch widescreen e-ink tablet, that can display two pages side-by-side.)

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

e-ink + front light = perfect reading device.

Now, now ... have we learned nothing? I think you meant:
"e-ink + front light = perfect reading device for me."

I can only say: have I ever tried reading a book on a sunny day, outside, or while traveling in a bus or train, for example? As soon as I'm outside in the summer, my phone and tablet become unreadable, while my Kindle is just as readable as always (or better).

I, for example, don't read outside. Ever. Nor do I read while travelling or commuting. I read inside, in a chair, after all work and travelling is done for the day. And I almost never travel anyway. My commute to work is a ten-minute walk.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Now, now ... have we learned nothing? I think you meant:
"e-ink + front light = perfect reading device for me."

Yes, but if *I* post an opinion, it becomes a fact, because... yeah... uh.... mumble, mumble....

I, for example, don't read outside. Ever. Nor do I read while travelling or commuting. I read inside, in a chair, after all work and travelling is done for the day. And I almost never travel anyway. My commute to work is a ten-minute walk.

Man, that's a big house you have there

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by kacir

110Eur, plus, of course, 20% Value Added Tax here in Europe.

Not as bad as I thought, but still a bit more than a Paperwhite, which regularly goes on sale for $99 with free shipping in the United States (but then you would have to add $20 to remove the advertising). But now I'm curious. 1) Is there anyone who sells these in the U.S. and 2) If not, where would a U.S. citizen buy them? -- directly from Pocket Book?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Rizla

There's a lot of talk here that e-reader(s) available in America are adequate for reading and that the tech is perfect for the job. But what if I want to read an A4 pdf on e-ink? Can't do it, not with an American e-reader. But I can do it with a large-format European / Asian e-reader.

That's true, but would you say your eReading needs would apply to "most" people who use eReaders, or a relatively small percentage of them? Not that I wouldn't like to see more selection in American stores.

[ingmar]

Originally Posted by rcentros

But probably not in the same league for price and availability (at least not the United States). I don't know what the Touch Lux 2 costs, but I'm guessing at least two to two and half times the cost of the Paperwhite.

Not in Europe. To give an example, in Germany the PW2 costs 129 € (all taxes included) while the PB Touch Lux Mk. 2 goes for ~108 €. I got mine for under 100, but that was a special offer.

I understand things may be different in the US, but hey, welcome to the club -- usually it's the other way round, i.e. things not available world wide (at reasonable prices).

[ingmar]

Originally Posted by kacir

110Eur, plus, of course, 20% Value Added Tax here in Europe.

Actually, that price does include the VAT already. Adding tax at the time of checkout is pretty much considered consumer fraud in the EU, all advertising must display the full price. You can get a PB 626 aka Touch Lux 2 for about 100 € if you shop around.

[soulfuldog]

Originally Posted by ingmar

Have you handled a last generation device (like the Touch Lux 2) recently? Definitely in the same league as Amazon.

To be fair, I haven't seen much of the Touch Lux 2, but had looked at video comparisons of the original Lux and PW1 and for me, there was simply no comparison. The PW was far quicker and responsive and the screen/light looked an awful lot better. The PW2 is an improvement over the original PW, and while I'm aware the Lux 2 has also been improved, it needed it more! Although I've not yet seen any video comparisons between the two (there isn't anywhere to see the Lux 2 in person).

Originally Posted by kacir

I had the first paperwhite and I sold it with a loss the moment I was able to purchase a front-lit PocketBook. Paperwhite did have better screen, but you had to have them side-to-side to see the difference.
I consider the quality of my front-lit PB 623 screen to be excellent.

I understand that for many people Kindle is good enough, but there should be choice for users that are willing to pay for different features.

By the same token, I understand that for some the PB 623 is good enough, but the screen isn't for me. I appreciate what you say about only really noticing the disparity between the screens when you place them side-by-side, but I prefer to know I am reading on what has the best quality screen/light combination, as that's probably the most important feature for me.

I know it's not really comparable as its a much older ereader, but as much as I love my diminutive PRS 350, but I am using it less and less as when I switch to using it instead of my PW, I really notice how poor the screen is on it.

Also, while the limited customisation options on the Kindle are definitely a negative point for a lot of people, there is still some available, I have fairly small fonts with narrow line spacing and the margins are 5mm - so hardly huge?

The Touch Lux 2 does look an option worth considering now, and long may Pocketbook continue to produce good alternatives. Looking at the reviews, if only it had been available when I was upgrading, it would certainly have been an option I would have considered.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by ingmar

Actually, that price [110Eur] does include the VAT already. Adding tax at the time of checkout is pretty much considered consumer fraud in the EU, all advertising must display the full price. You can get a PB 626 aka Touch Lux 2 for about 100 € if you shop around.

I have looked in several e-shops here and the price was 110 without VAT. You must live in country with better prices. Lucky you.
In Russia, the prices are even worse.
In brick and mortar shops the price tag must include VAT. In our e-shops you usually have price without VAT in big red letters, and underneath you have the complete price with VAT in much smaller black print.

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

To be fair, I haven't seen much of the Touch Lux 2, but had looked at video comparisons of the original Lux and PW1

I owned both of them at the same time so I had lots of time to do side-by side comparison and also extended testing for both of them. Even with the first paperwhites there were many people returning them because of non-uniform light. So the quality might vary from unit to unit, even for Amazon.
I had a chance to see a few PocketBooks first hand and none of those had any problem with the light or display, even when compared with a PaperWhite version I or II.

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

By the same token, I understand that for some the PB 623 is good enough, but the screen isn't for me.

you haven't seen it in person. Period. There is difference [or was, for the two units I was comparing], but it was really minimal. I just had to admit that there was some difference if I wanted to be fair.
But, whatever ... This discussion is about the importance of CHOICE and innovation.
I personally was extremely pissed off that I can't switch off the light on Kindle completely. I understand that there is almost no difference in battery life and that you can't possibly see the lowest level of light in the bright sunshine, but I was still *very* annoyed. Just as you would be annoyed if you knew that there exists a model with a tiny bit better display, even if the model you currently own is really great ;-)

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

... but as much as I love my diminutive PRS 350, but I am using it less and less as when I switch to using it instead of my PW, I really notice how poor the screen is on it.

And yet, PRS 350 was considered to be THE best reader of its time. Then innovation happened ;-)

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

Also, while the limited customisation options on the Kindle are definitely a negative point for a lot of people, there is still some available, I have fairly small fonts with narrow line spacing and the margins are 5mm - so hardly huge?

Those margins are five times wider than what I am using ;-)
The second Kindle - now called Kindle Keyboard did have possibility to set your own margins by editing a simple text file in the "system" directory on Kindle. I can't understand why Amazon removed that option.

Seriously. What pisses me off, is knowledge that there is no real technical reason for removing options, such as justification or margin size or list of font sizes, even in the form of advanced settings buried deep within the fifth level of experimental menu, or an xml file you would have to create and edit on PC in a "system" directory.

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

The Touch Lux 2 does look an option worth considering now, and long may Pocketbook continue to produce good alternatives. Looking at the reviews, if only it had been available when I was upgrading, it would certainly have been an option I would have considered.

THIS is exactly what I am complaining about. Users have no choice.
It is not that I think that Kindle is not a good reader for some people. It is exactly the type of device I would recommend for a non-technical user that has no support and needs to get his/her books and set her/his options unassisted.

[ingmar]

Originally Posted by kacir

I have looked in several e-shops here and the price was 110 without VAT.

"Here" being where, exactly?

You must live in country with better prices.

I was talking about Germany, but it really shouldn't matter much, what with the Internal Market and all. Even if you have to pay your country's VAT (it depends on the size of the vendor, actually, the amount of merchandise they sell), you don't have to pay that of the country of origin in this case. There's no double-dipping here.

In Russia, the prices are even worse.

I know, I was talking about the EU.

In brick and mortar shops the price tag must include VAT. In our e-shops you usually have price without VAT in big red letters, and underneath you have the complete price with VAT in much smaller black print.

Again, where are you from? This is not allowed in my jurisdiction, unless it's strictly B2B.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

While I can understand your POV, Amazon did try to sell a 9.7 inch e-reader, even before the 9.7 inch tablets came onto the market. It sold so badly that they never updated it, and are even selling old stock up until now.

...

I thought there were some changes made to the DX. From the MR wiki:

The Kindle DX Graphite is the 3rd generation Kindle DX, but the differences are relatively minor. The 1st generation was US-only with EVDO wireless, the 2nd generation was international with AT&T 3G. The 1st and 2nd generation were white with a E Ink Vizplex screen. The 3rd generation is graphite with a E Ink Pearl screen. The Pearl screen has 50% more contrast.

https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Kindle_DX

[Tarana]

Sigh, you people really need to get over your obsession with only reading on a one note machine.

The discussion is about the EREADERS! Eink technology vs. a tablet is far easier to read. I saw many elderly people getting ereaders after dumping the tablets their grandchildren bought them due to complexity of operation and difficulty reading. It may be a one note, but it does it very well. However, even if say 1 in 10 elderly people get a new ereader - the main ereader market is already saturated. They are only buying new ereaders IF their old one breaks and that takes some years for most.

On the other hand, tablets have an advantage now because there currently aren't any ereaders sold that do TTS. I don't actually like my Kindle HDX, but it does have a much better computer voice for TTS. Wish it had bluetooth.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

While I can understand your POV, Amazon did try to sell a 9.7 inch e-reader, even before the 9.7 inch tablets came onto the market. It sold so badly that they never updated it, and are even selling old stock up until now.

And yet companies are making them in Europe / Asia. Why is that? Part of it is they are pushing them as e-ink tablets...

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The one step up that would get me really excited now would be a 7 or 8 inch 4:3 full Android e-ink tablet, because the Android apps offer more customization regarding the appearance of a book than any e-reader has now. (I'd also go for a 10 or 11 inch widescreen e-ink tablet, that can display two pages side-by-side.)

Exactly. Add blue-tooth to that device (or a USB port that works with a keyboard) and you can connect a keyboard to it and use it as a word-processor, etc. These machines are already being produced in Europe and Asia.

We are light-years from such a device in America.