You are not the owner of Amazon Ebooks

[ApK]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Not all of us want it. I do not.

Your want worse terms and fewer rights? Are you a Disney lawyer?

I didn't say everyone wanted resale.

Anyway, in case it wasn't clear, the "we all" I was referring to was we all who want these changes, both those who know it's about license terms and those who think it's about 'ownership.'

[speakingtohe]

Ownership isn't overall an absolute condition As far as I can see. because you 'own' t always mean you can do as you like with it. something doesn't.

I own a condo, but if I am negligent enough or objectionable enough the condo council can force me to sell.

People in Canada have had rental properties confiscated in recent years because they rented to a tenant who carried on an illegal business on the premises.

And how can you own an intellectual property if even the creator only has a limited right which can be changed?

Speaking only for myself I am pretty happy with eBooks and the way they are being handled. Not saying it is perfect but except in the event of a catastrophic disaster where all of my local and remote backups were destroyed along with the venders I bought my books from going out of business and the library revoking my card and all the paper bookstores closing etc. Probably I could still find something to read and as it is now, the convenience and lower overall cost makes it a worthwhile tradeoff.

I doubt very much if I would have given the ownership issue any thought at all if not for mobile read threads like this one. I've bought thousands of books in my life and while price was sometimes a factor, I never once considered resale factor or trading/lending factor when buying a book. If I wanted a book and could afford it I bought it. Sometimes I traded books but wasn't upset when I couldn't. I've donated far more than I traded because it seemed wrong to throw them out.

Of course that is just me in that I rarely sell used items I no longer need. I prefer to give them to a family member or someone who cannot afford them if they are not really expensive. I once sold a dishwasher to someone for less than they offered me dammit. But for a $20 item that might net me $10 if I struck a hard bargain (yeah right) I don't want to answer enquiries, listen to someone insult my merchandise so I will lower my price etc.

Plus it is pretty apparent that no matter how legal or foolproof it becomes there is no significant money to be made. Once legitimately published there is never going to be a shortage of copies of a book so rarity won't count and fast readers will be hitting the marketplace within hours of publication. The only people to make money IMO are the extremely fast readers and those who will profit from the process of title transfer.

I can read a book pretty fast, but many are faster, and for me, the race to read it fast would mean I would lose most of the enjoyment of reading. Reading it fast because I can't stop reading is one thing, but beating the clock would make my head hurt I think.

@ApK
This is not directed at you really, just your post started me thinking and I couldn't stop.

Helen

[ApK]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

This is not directed at you really, just your post started me thinking and I couldn't stop.

Helen

I could not ask for a better response to one of my posts!

[Jack Torrance]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

How many here have never resold a physical book, or record/8-track/cassette/cd, or a videotape/laserdisk/DVD (that they purchased new) in their life? I'm not defending/championing anything here, just asking a question.

*raises hand*

I do resell pbooks, DVDs ect ect and also purchase them used. In the past I would buy a current bestseller for 35% off the going list, read it and then sell it on eBay for more than I paid.

I've purchased many books new and used at garage sales ect and sold them for for a profit. The same for audio books, DVDs and all the like. Physical media lends it self to this and I see no issue with it. It's kind of the American way.

Back at the original topic of not really owning Amazons ebooks. I can understand this to a point as they the devices are almost loss leaders in hopes of recouping the investment on media sales.

This is different from buying an mp3 from iTunes as it can be a royal PITA to move music from the computer or device to another device that I also own. I can't say I've run into that issue from Amazon. Ebooks I've purchase have gone on multiple devices that I've owned with little or no hassle, even with the DRM still in place.

Though that doesn't stand for Audible books. While I can download them to different devices I can't lend or sell them after I finished and AFAIK if I stop subscribing to Audie I lose access to the account and the books if I haven't downloaded them. I can't say I'm happy with this but for the most part the service provided is worth the cost. I've purchased used Audio books but the audible SW and formatting is worth the price so I've just lived with it.

Now as far as retaining ownership ( buying a license or buying the item goes I think most people will see that as semantics) and beiing able to lend or resell a digital item I can see the issue of verifying that only the 1 copy purchased is the one being passed around at any given time is going to come down to the individual actually following the terms of the TOS and as we all know there are ways around all this.

As long as people find the cost reasonable and fair they will follow the rules but the fact that The Pirate Bay and sites like it exist and that they proliferate, a lot of people think the policies are still overdone.

On a side note. There is a reason that "Game of Thrones" is the most pirated tv going. Because they made it to hard to watch legally.

[ebusinesstutor]

Originally Posted by Froide

That last point is interesting, because it seems difficult to enforce. Presumably, anyone who can access the devices and storage media containing a deceased person's digital content can continue to access that content, indefinitely. Can't they? Or do the content providers, upon learning of a customer's death (e.g., via a notice from the credit company registered to the deceased's media account) revoke the rights? But then, of course, anyone with access to such an account could update said account with another credit card and keep on truckin'. Of course, freebies acquired from sites that don't require a credit card account (e.g., comiXology, Feedbooks, Gutenberg) would never be the wiser.

Do you think Amazon would catch on when their are still books being purchased on the same account after 150 years? Or will they just think you are very long lived?

[cromag]

Like many here I never gave much thought to buying/owning issues in the paper-book universe because I never had to. If I bought a book and then discovered that the publisher would only allow me to read it in my living room and that I could never read it in the den, that would have been a problem.

That's the problem that ebook "ownership" preseents.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by cromag

Like many here I never gave much thought to buying/owning issues in the paper-book universe because I never had to. If I bought a book and then discovered that the publisher would only allow me to read it in my living room and that I could never read it in the den, that would have been a problem.

That's the problem that ebook "ownership" preseents.

Ebook "owernership" is making you only read paper books in your living room?
Nah. More likely "the problem" is people are fixating on paper books and irrationally expecting a totally different thing to work just like it. Even as an analogy, what you are saying does not make any sense any other way.
It's like ordering chicken fried steak and having a problem with it not tasting like chicken.

[cromag]

No, perhaps you missed the "If."

I saw it more as buying an ebook at Amazon and not being allowed to read it on my non-Kindle ereader.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

Do you think Amazon would catch on when their are still books being purchased on the same account after 150 years? Or will they just think you are very long lived?

Nope, I very much doubt they have wrote any code to check the age of a users account. It is possible they will check the DOB when transferring to a new platform but this will probably be put down to a typo.
I've certainly never done it, and I assume no other programmer here has (Harry?). I've seen programs that automatically expire, but never users registered within the program.
Maybe someone's HR/Payroll program has a check to see if someone has been working the night shift for 150 years (The ID Badge may be a problem but your well prepared vampire will have a graphic artist on hand to produce photos). OK, I'm fairly sure some HR programs do have checks against retirement age and how long a pension has been drawn for.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Nope, I very much doubt they have wrote any code to check the age of a users account. It is possible they will check the DOB when transferring to a new platform but this will probably be put down to a typo.
I've certainly never done it, and I assume no other programmer here has (Harry?). I've seen programs that automatically expire, but never users registered within the program.
Maybe someone's HR/Payroll program has a check to see if someone has been working the night shift for 150 years (The ID Badge may be a problem but your well prepared vampire will have a graphic artist on hand to produce photos). OK, I'm fairly sure some HR programs do have checks against retirement age and how long a pension has been drawn for.

I knew a person once who got a social security number for their dog who was dead by then. They claimed the dog as a dependant for welfare and later worked using the dogs name. Perhaps they are claiming the dog's pension now.

Helen

[ApK]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Perhaps they are claiming the dog's pension now.

And they deserve it. For years, they must have worked like a dog.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by ApK

And they deserve it. For years, they must have worked like a dog.

Perhaps if their dog specialised in not doing much Still they (he) showed some initiative in the scamming the government department. Not saying that is a good thing but better perhaps than sitting around drinking beer in your underwear a popular pastime in that area back in the day or maybe not.

Helen

[ApK]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Perhaps if their dog specialised in not doing much

Make no bones about it, he was probably dog tired at the end of the day.

Still they (he) showed some initiative in the scamming the government department.

Yes, he showed dogged determination.

Must I put winkies on these?

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by ApK

Make no bones about it, he was probably dog tired at the end of the day.

Do I really need winkies on these?

Nah you have got your dog idiom(s) across even if you had to work like a dog to do it.

Helen

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

Do you think Amazon would catch on when their are still books being purchased on the same account after 150 years?

Taking this too seriously, it is quite unusual for a large corporation to live anywhere near that long.

If this did happen, however, they could advertise how customer loyalty extends generation after generation.