Shifting back to physical books...

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

IMO the biggest failing of ebooks is the lack of a secondary market. I buy many books that I decide aren't worth keeping once I've read them. Or I'll buy a short story then, later, buy a collection containing that story so I end up with duplicate books. With pbooks, no problem-I sell them to others or donate them and get a tax deduction. With ebooks? I either throw them out so nobody benefits from them or I keep them in case I change my mind. Fortunately storage costs for ebooks are nothing.

Since I strip the DRM I suppose I could sell them and, provided I sold no more copies than I bought (usually 1) I believe I could prevail in court should I be sued over it-but I don't think it's worth the trouble. Maybe if ebooks cost more, like hundreds of dollars each, then I'd think it was worth the trouble-but if they cost that much I don't think I'd own so many. Paradox.

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Not to mention you might have trouble finding buyers. Unless you run a very popular site, selling any book (visibility) is not all that easy...

I'll not argue the moral, ethical or legal issues as there is no point and we don't need another thread on that topic.

While I have been told that trading books online is quite doable and saves big bucks, I pretty much gave up on trading paper books in stores 20 years ago. For a new book you are very lucky in my experience to get 20% of what you paid. Perhaps if you donate hundreds or thousands of dollars to charity every year the tax deduction thing could be worthwhile, but the paperwork and accounting for each small deduction seems a bit over the top to me. Might be different where you live.

While I won't say it makes up for not being able to sell for many I have some (to me) big reasons to prefer ebooks.

Location, Location, Location. The books I have and want to read are always on my ereader(s). Occasionally my ereader may fall of my bedside table, but if it buries itself in some unusual place then I have another ereader or two always handy.

Time is money. Not that I have enough of either, but do I want to trek across town to a place or two that might want to buy my books, or even trade them, or sell them online and read half-hearted enquiries wondering if I can lower my price or pay the shipping but they don't think they want the book anyway, do I have anything better. Many enjoy this process but not me. I would rather work an extra half hour here and there or make my espresso at home to save the cash. My book budget is under $30 a week (usually way under as I read at least 50% library books and bargain books. If I got back 50% of that it would be $0 to $15. More likely $0 to $2. Just does not make it a big benefit in my eyes.

To recoup two or three bucks on a $10 paper book or even $4 to $6 on a $20 one, I might have to spend money on transportation, time already spent on getting the books I am trying to flog, and the fact that I might not even find a buyer at all as Bear Mountain said, if it is a popular book and the second hand market is flooded.
Of course some may be on a limited income and must spend the time due to lack of money, but then how does a tax deduction help?

Helen

[BearMountainBooks]

It used to be easy and somewhat profitable to sell used paperbacks on Amazon, but these days, the big second-hand sellers are all over that market and Amazon now takes a larger chunk of the sale. I can testify that it is not worth it. By the time I use up my saved stash of envelopes and pay for gas to mail the thing, I'm lucky if I can make 40 cents to a dollar by selling a used book. There are so many copies of most everything, a lot of books sell for a penny. Amazon takes a cut of the shipping so you don't even get the full 3.99 shipping. Sometimes, out of the 3.99 postage cut, you get BARELY enough to cover the actual postage. If I didn't use up old bubble envelopes, I'd have been paying to ship books out. There are times when I was covering some of the postage from my supposed profit (hardbacks especially or any very large book like a cookbook, large paperback).

I've sold exactly ONE audio book via craigslist. It just doesn't have enough reader eyeballs to be a market for used books. I'm sure there are places where books could more readily be swapped, but I agree. It's a lot of trouble and with the price of gas and postage, it is hardly worth it (for me).

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

It used to be easy and somewhat profitable to sell used paperbacks on Amazon, but these days, the big second-hand sellers are all over that market and Amazon now takes a larger chunk of the sale. I can testify that it is not worth it. By the time I use up my saved stash of envelopes and pay for gas to mail the thing, I'm lucky if I can make 40 cents to a dollar by selling a used book. There are so many copies of most everything, a lot of books sell for a penny. Amazon takes a cut of the shipping so you don't even get the full 3.99 shipping. Sometimes, out of the 3.99 postage cut, you get BARELY enough to cover the actual postage. If I didn't use up old bubble envelopes, I'd have been paying to ship books out. There are times when I was covering some of the postage from my supposed profit (hardbacks especially or any very large book like a cookbook, large paperback).

I've sold exactly ONE audio book via craigslist. It just doesn't have enough reader eyeballs to be a market for used books. I'm sure there are places where books could more readily be swapped, but I agree. It's a lot of trouble and with the price of gas and postage, it is hardly worth it (for me).

I am just curious, Do you actually make 40 cents to the dollar on a book that you bought new (which is mainly what I was referring to although I didn't make it clear) or one you bought used?

I am surprised that you can actually get 40% for used after factoring in time and transport, currency transfer fees etc. but I do not doubt your word

Not worth it to me, I can always even at my advanced age, get as much work than I want, and even my menial labour job which I enjoy will the most, or hate the least, depending on the day it is, seems preferable. 1 hour worked equals 3 books at full price or probably more than the 40% I could possibly get back on them and 2 more

And strangely enough I actually enjoy economising at times. Selling used books is one way. Doing without is another. Spending some of that time I save by entertaining at home and being entertained in turn at my friends homes can literally save me $100's a month. And it is fun. Likewise my fancy coffee machine. People come for coffee once a week or occasionally twice, bring REALLY fancy pastries, or home made goodies, and often I am stuck with the leftovers And as I said it is fun.

Helen

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I am just curious, Do you actually make 40 cents to the dollar on a book that you bought new (which is mainly what I was referring to although I didn't make it clear) or one you bought used?

I am surprised that you can actually get 40% for used after factoring in time and transport, currency transfer fees etc. but I do not doubt your word
...snip...

Helen

I think that you may be misinterpreting as BearM said "40 cents to a dollar" not the dollar... from my experience, as far as anything relatively common is concerned, that's what he meant - from 40 cents to one dollar for the book as the sale price - rarer items (signed 1st editions, single printings etc) can still be profitable but bestsellers not...

[BearMountainBooks]

I'll clarify--I was usually selling an excellent condition used OR new (read once by me) book and I might make BACK 40 cents or up to a dollar when I stopped bothering. So my purchase price on the book was anywhere from 4 dollars to 8 dollars (in general). When I first started reselling, I was making back as much as 3 to 4 dollars per book (minus gas). I stopped bothering when I was making back 40 cents to a dollar because it simply was not worth the trip to the post office. There was no actual "profit" involved. I was buying books and almost never made back the full purchase price. There were occasional exceptions--usually audio books. I sometimes found a good price on a used audio book and the value would, at times, increase from what I paid. Two or three technical books had the same thing happen. But for fiction, I was merely making a few dollars back on what I had already spent. It kept my bookshelves reasonable and it allowed me to put that money back into another book because I usually bought my books used anyway.

I completely understand your entertainment value. There is nothing like having good friends over for coffee and cake. We have a lovely espresso machine and my husband roasts and grinds his own coffee every week. I love to bake. And baking my own saves thousands of dollars on desserts each year. No really. I eat a LOT of desserts. :>) Okay, hundreds of dollars!

[speakingtohe]

Sorry. I tend to think in percentages on this. When I was last trading books, I got about 35% of the cover price as a trade in credit, or $3.50 for a $10 book. You had to spend as much cash as the credit when trading for a book. A $10 book was $3.50 credit and $3.50 cash. So each book would cost $3.50 cash and plus a percentage of what the first book cost (assuming all $10 books) Not that bad a deal, except that used bookstores started charging 90% in some cases for a book in good condition and/or offering less for trade-ins and would start refusing to take books that they were overstocked in even if you bought them there. So one would go to the store with 10 books, end up bringing 5 rejects back home and spending $4.50 a book for the ones you traded and $9.00 for the ones you bought. I got annoyed by the whole process and decided that the library had a better selection and I would save even more Or I could treat myself to a shiny new book for a very few dollars more than I would have spent on used and not have to hunt through disorganized clutter to do so.

Of course for many the hunt is all the fun but it got so it wasn't for me.

Helen

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[Ndaara]

Originally Posted by rwillmer

I love that you're using it! Please try to break it again... it's working for me now.. (had a problem on one of the nodes, I've rebooted it!)

This is a great service! I tried to use a different one a few years ago but it was not useful (incorrect information, broken links, etc). So far I've gotten accurate info, and I've been "trying" to break it but it's working well. Yay! Thank you very much!!

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Sorry. I tend to think in percentages on this. When I was last trading books, I got about 35% of the cover price as a trade in credit, or $3.50 for a $10 book. You had to spend as much cash as the credit when trading for a book. A $10 book was $3.50 credit and $3.50 cash. So each book would cost $3.50 cash and plus a percentage of what the first book cost (assuming all $10 books) Not that bad a deal, except that used bookstores started charging 90% in some cases for a book in good condition and/or offering less for trade-ins and would start refusing to take books that they were overstocked in even if you bought them there. So one would go to the store with 10 books, end up bringing 5 rejects back home and spending $4.50 a book for the ones you traded and $9.00 for the ones you bought. I got annoyed by the whole process and decided that the library had a better selection and I would save even more Or I could treat myself to a shiny new book for a very few dollars more than I would have spent on used and not have to hunt through disorganized clutter to do so.

Of course for many the hunt is all the fun but it got so it wasn't for me.

Helen

.

Agreed. I used to take books into a used bookstore, but it was not worth it. They really didn't want more books and the cheapest books were only half off cover price. So for a 7.99 paperback it was minimum 4 dollars. They paid anywhere from 10 cents a book to a few dollars. I sometimes took in 10 books just to "buy" one. I felt I'd get more out of it by giving them to the library. I stopped going. Then Amazon came along and I sold a bunch there for probably 2 years or so. Not worth it anymore. I buy a LOT of ebooks and I download a LOT of ebooks for free. Of course, I read 3 pages and discard many of them. I use the library a lot too, but I don't like that option as much because I don't like driving there. How lazy. Yes. Tis true. I excel at laziness!!!

[cortman]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I am just curious, Do you actually make 40 cents to the dollar on a book that you bought new (which is mainly what I was referring to although I didn't make it clear) or one you bought used?

Ebay is a great place to sell books. They have a small seller fee, but nothing exorbitant (and it's lower than Amazon's IIRC).
On every book I've sold there I've made at least 80-90% of what I originally paid for it. On some I've even made a little extra beyond what I paid for it (since I bought the book originally at a drastically low sale price).
Of course I am helped by the fact that I don't

a) Buy new modern novels (thing that are popular for a month or two and then are forgotten)
b) Pay full retail price for ANY book
c) Never buy paperbacks- only hardbacks- and then usually Easton Press, Folio Society, Franklin Library, or other reputable publishers.

If you are an avid consumer of paperbacks and/or pay full retail price for everything you buy, then no, you won't make your money back, mainly because that's a bit of a foolish way to go about it IMO. Wait for sales or find good deals from private buyers is my strategy.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I am surprised that you can actually get 40% for used after factoring in time and transport, currency transfer fees etc. but I do not doubt your word.

Time: 5-10 minutes (take a photo, create an ebay listing, package item when sold)
Transportation: USPS comes to my house, or I can just drop in the mailbox at work.
Currency transfer: ??? $0.00. I never sell international.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by cortman

Ebay is a great place to sell books. They have a small seller fee, but nothing exorbitant (and it's lower than Amazon's IIRC).
On every book I've sold there I've made at least 80-90% of what I originally paid for it. On some I've even made a little extra beyond what I paid for it (since I bought the book originally at a drastically low sale price).
Of course I am helped by the fact that I don't

a) Buy new modern novels (thing that are popular for a month or two and then are forgotten)
b) Pay full retail price for ANY book
c) Never buy paperbacks- only hardbacks- and then usually Easton Press, Folio Society, Franklin Library, or other reputable publishers.

If you are an avid consumer of paperbacks and/or pay full retail price for everything you buy, then no, you won't make your money back, mainly because that's a bit of a foolish way to go about it IMO. Wait for sales or find good deals from private buyers is my strategy.



Time: 5-10 minutes (take a photo, create an ebay listing, package item when sold)
Transportation: USPS comes to my house, or I can just drop in the mailbox at work.
Currency transfer: ??? $0.00. I never sell international.

Well that is where I go wrong on the concept

When I bought paper books, I only bought hard covers when I wanted to own the book permanently. So I was thinking paperback.

And I had started moving around a lot so had switched to mainly library books about the time Ebay came about.

I still work out of town 5-6 months a year so ebooks are a tremendous benefit to me for that reason alone.

Helen

[dixieknits]

No, I don't like using paper books anymore. They are hard on my eyes, I don't like the crevice and shadows between the pages. Also, I don't like the weight and awkwardness of a real book. I'll stick with ebooks. I usually buy one book a month in the $10-$13 range, a couple of $3 or so books and download a couple from my library, so for $15-$20 a month, I pretty much am able to read what I choose. If I had my little Kobo Glo when I was a child, I would never have slept.. I'd be under the covers reading all night..

[BearMountainBooks]

I have only purchased a hardback ... probably less than 10 times in my life. I pretty much read genre books, although rarely best sellers. Those are readily available at the library. And I'd have to go to the post office to ship media mail. IF I still purchased a lot of paperback books, I'd probably have to do something of the sort, but these days I'm mostly ebooks. If I buy a nice paperback that I don't want to keep, I give it away on my blog as part of a monthly summer giveaway pack during the "what was the best book you read last month?" topic. Those giveaways go over big because I usually wait until I have two or three cozies and two or three urban fantasies, which are my main reading habits. I think I did a thriller once, but no one opted for that one.

[cortman]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Well that is where I go wrong on the concept

When I bought paper books, I only bought hard covers when I wanted to own the book permanently. So I was thinking paperback.

And I had started moving around a lot so had switched to mainly library books about the time Ebay came about.

I still work out of town 5-6 months a year so ebooks are a tremendous benefit to me for that reason alone.

Helen

Ah I see, your situation is a little different.
Ebooks have replaced cheap paperbacks in my life- before if I wasn't sure if I would like a book or not I'd find a super cheap paperback copy at a library sale or elsewhere, so I wouldn't feel bad pitching it if I didn't like it. With ebooks I can usually find a copy for free (or else pretty cheap).

[Indio777]

Originally Posted by latepaul

Has anyone experienced this supposed effect where you retain more when reading from paper?

Yes, I have. I seem to retain more when reading on paper. At first I thought I was imagining things, but now not so sure.

[DrNefario]

Although I have been buying and reading a lot of pbooks, as I mentioned before, I think I probably do prefer the ebook for new releases. The paper books I'm buying are all (at least) one of:

A) Old books that are out of print
B) New authors I am not sure I'm going to like
C) Books I just want to read, and don't want to keep

I guess there's also an element of price in it for the Agatha Christies. There are a lot of them, and they are rarely discounted as ebooks. They're also not hard to find used. Initially they'd have come under C, but now I guess I wouldn't object to permanent copies. Then again, some of the used books I've bought are the nice facsimile first edition hardbacks and are in excellent condition, if I feel like keeping them.