Sue Grafton: "The universe will come to your aid."

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Catlady

No, and I won't die from eating a meal I don't like either. I wasn't talking about "like"--that's irrelevant.

On the contrary, there's nothing else that it relevant. Yes, you won't die from eating a meal that you don't like. That's the point. The consequence of reading an indie book is no different than that of listening to an indie band.

And there are other opinions besides yours too.

I never said there wasn't. But you seem to be confusing what potential readers in general want with what you want.

So it's less vain to self-publish because now the author doesn't pay a third party? Huh? Nowadays authors don't even have to have enough confidence in their own work to put their money where their mouth is.

Words have meaning. Self-publishing is not vanity publishing. Just because you want to take a shot at self-publishers doesn't mean that it is vanity publishing.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Catlady

No, and I won't die from eating a meal I don't like either. I wasn't talking about "like"--that's irrelevant.




And there are other opinions besides yours too.




So it's less vain to self-publish because now the author doesn't pay a third party? Huh? Nowadays authors don't even have to have enough confidence in their own work to put their money where their mouth is.

It's cheaper--not free. There is quite a bit of money that goes into it--cover work, copyright filing fees, listing fees (yes, there is a listing fee to get on sites such as B&N for print copy), ISBNs editing, buying proofs, and giveaways. Not all authors pay for each step and some have more means than others. But we can pick and choose who we hire instead of forking over 5 to 10k and being stuck with whatever we get. Vanity publishing was a high fee print service that did NOT do a thing for distribution or marketing or quality. They charged high fees without doing anything more than printing -- but they promised ever so much more.

The difference is quite vast with how it works now. As a reader, you may not know or care about those differences, but they are such that a writer can really focus on craft--and still have a chance at a viable income and a chance to learn even more.

So have no fear. We are not able to loose our magnificence on you for free.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Receiving a form letter from a faceless person within a BPH does not inspire confidence in a budding author either. Rather the opposite, especially so if it was not the first form type rejection letter.

It's not necessarily meant to inspire confidence. It's meant to be a reality check.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

On the contrary, there's nothing else that it relevant. Yes, you won't die from eating a meal that you don't like. That's the point. The consequence of reading an indie book is no different than that of listening to an indie band.

You continue to ignore my objection to the original analogy of the restaurant. Any restaurant is subject to health department regulations as a condition of operation--there are agencies to ensure that minimum standards must be met or the place can't sell food. There is no similar body to ensure that a self-published work has to meet any standards--e.g., that it must be marginally grammatical, that most of the words must be spelled correctly, that the majority of the sentences must make sense. I do have those expectations, however, when I purchase a traditionally published work, whether I like the specific book or not.

Words have meaning. Self-publishing is not vanity publishing. Just because you want to take a shot at self-publishers doesn't mean that it is vanity publishing.

Of course it is.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

It's cheaper--not free. There is quite a bit of money that goes into it--cover work, copyright filing fees, listing fees (yes, there is a listing fee to get on sites such as B&N for print copy), ISBNs editing, buying proofs, and giveaways. Not all authors pay for each step and some have more means than others. But we can pick and choose who we hire instead of forking over 5 to 10k and being stuck with whatever we get. Vanity publishing was a high fee print service that did NOT do a thing for distribution or marketing or quality. They charged high fees without doing anything more than printing -- but they promised ever so much more.

The difference is quite vast with how it works now. As a reader, you may not know or care about those differences, but they are such that a writer can really focus on craft--and still have a chance at a viable income and a chance to learn even more.

So have no fear. We are not able to loose our magnificence on you for free.

I didn't say it was free. I said originally that it was cheaper and easier nowadays.

[Ninjalawyer]

Oh good, we've finally arrived at the stage in a Mobile Reads discussion where the thread descends into an argument over analogies.

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Not a good analogy. The indie restaurant still has to meet standards regarding food preparation and cleanliness, per the health department. Where's the oversight for the self-pubber?

Does that mean we can re-brand the health department as the Slush Section?

[Belfaborac]

Incidentally, I've been waiting decades for the universe to come to my aid in a variety of matters and my patience is wearing really, really thin.

[Kumabjorn]

The Universe ain't what it used to be, I blame it on the bosons.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

The Universe ain't what it used to be, I blame it on the bosons.

Quite true.
We only get the low grade ones, not the exciting Looking Glass Boson type...

Edit: Too obscure, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_b..._Looking_Glass
Its a romp.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

Oh good, we've finally arrived at the stage in a Mobile Reads discussion where the thread descends into an argument over analogies.

Definitions, mostly.
And talking past each other.

Maybe we can get back on track...

Sticking to the definitions alone, there is a clear difference between self-publishing (a *process*) and Vanity Press (a *business model*).

Its really simple: self publishers are their own publishers of record.
Vanity Press companies present *themselves* as the book's publisher.

Engaging in the process of self-publishing may or not take you to a Vanity Press company but that does not mean that all self-publishers are Vanity Press victims.

Look at the companies instead of the writers:

- Vanity press companies make their money off the writer, not the books; whether the book sells or not is no concern of theirs. (C.F. Author Solutions, the new Penguin wholly-owned subsidiary)

- Publishing services companies make their money off the books, not the writer; the more the book sells, the more money they make. (Smashwords, PubIt, Kindle Select, among others.)

Grafton's Damage Control statement makes it clear that she is so out of touch with recent industry changes she didn't know there were any honest Publishing Services companies. Fair enough. She's rich, famous, 72, and has people who take care of those things for her, just as she has people to take care of her lawn and take out the trash, etc.

People around *here* should know better.
With all the debates over terms of service at KDP, Smashwords blog posts about optimal ebook pricing, Pub-it, Apple's iAuthor...
Publishing services are front and center around here pretty much every week. And we know they are honest businesses providing real value that deserve better than to be tarred with the brush of Vanity Press. They are not scam artists or, to use Grafton's words: "...the charlatans lurking out there. I warn about the risk of being taken in by those who promise more than they actually deliver and do so at a writers expense. "

Vanity Press is a very specific Term referring to a very specific kind of unsavory business.

Try this, from the SFWA's Writer Beware web site:
http://www.sfwa.org/for-authors/writ...nity/#Pitfalls

For another, it’s very difficult for authors to recoup this investment, since vanity/subsidy publishers rarely offer meaningful distribution or marketing. They have no economic incentive to do so–their principal source of income isn’t the sale of books to the public, but the sale of services to authors, and they have little desire to cut into that. If you vanity/subsidy-publish, it’s likely that you’ll lose money.

In contrast:

True self-publishing, like vanity publishing, requires the author to bear the entire cost of publication, and also leaves marketing and promotion to the author. However, rather than paying for a pre-set package of services, the author puts those services together himself. Because every aspect of the process can be out to bid, self-publishing can be much more cost effective than vanity publishing; it can also result in a higher-quality product. All rights, and all profits, remain with the author.

See the difference, folks?

In self-publishing, the writer does the work personally.
They manage the project, top to bottom.
In Vanity Press, they just write checks. (And maybe go to court once they realize they've been scammed.)

Big difference.

Much more here:
http://www.sfwa.org/for-authors/writer-beware/vanity/

Writer Beware is a great resource where established SF writers actually help aspiring writers avoid the traps of the publishing business instead of throwing out hollow platitudes about the universe taking care of you.

It is a very educational place.
Highly reccomended.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

The Universe ain't what it used to be, I blame it on the bosons.

[DiapDealer]

I blame it on the bosons.

The little guys who blows the funny whistles on ships?

[Kumabjorn]

Yeah, let's go with that.

[Muckraker]

All it takes is one reader being affected by a book that was self-published to prove Grafton's theory--and the self-publishing naysayers--wrong. We're not talking about self-publishing a great book versus honing your craft while waiting for The Universe to shine a spotlight on you and your really great book. We're talking about self-publishing a great book or potentially dying with your great book imprisoned on a hard-drive.

Back in January I was Googling myself to make sure my most recent republication was showing up in the results and I found a book called Alex by Adam J Nicolai (I am now officially 'the other Adam Nicolai'). It had a dozen or so five-star reviews on Amazon. I made and promptly misplaced a mental note to buy it. I stumbled across it again in March, noticed it had thirty-five reviews, and decided to toss a few bucks to my doppelgänger even though I am not particularly interested in that genre. I read it and was floored--the damn thing made me cry.

I'm a grown, medicated man. I haven't cried for dead pets or dead relatives or sick children or anything at all since 1999. And yet one part of this self-published "paranormal fiction" book hit hard and had me weeping. I went back to Amazon just now to make sure the book was still there before I took the trouble to write this post. Alex now has 140 reviews averaged out to five stars.

Grafton's sweeping generalization is wrong. And self-publishing is not vanity publishing. It is not vain to know you are good at something and take matters into your own hands rather than wait to be discovered. There are seven billion people on this planet and the handful of folks doing the "discovering" are becoming increasingly impotent and trending toward extinction. Sure, inexperienced writers can self-publish and peddle low-quality material when they should be working solely on creating high-quality material. But there are also experienced writers self-publishing exceptional material.

If Justin Bieber had taken Grafton's advice he would still be singing in the shower instead of having the gall to let everyone see what he already knew. There's nothing wrong with believing in yourself and putting yourself out there. The rest of the world is chomping at the bit to let inexperienced creators know they should get back to honing their craft (and yes, 'honing their craft' is definitely a euphemism there).

Self-publishing is the way to go today--and it will be the way to go tomorrow as well. Amateur journalists and photographers self-publish their articles and art on blogs. Amateur bands and movie-makers self-publish their songs and movies on Youtube. Amateur programmers even self-publish their applications and games. Grafton's "Universe" is actually the voting block of seven-billion humans. It's that mass of voters that makes or breaks us, not some sneaky Universal Agent peeking in the window to make sure we are honed enough to spot that plot hole or comma splice.