Penguin ends library/Overdrive relationship starting tomorrow

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I like going through Amazon for my library books, because they get delivered wirelessly. No more cables.

I don't see a privacy issue. Amazon already knows which books I buy so I don't care if they know which books I borrow.

You may be ok with it, but it rubs me the wrong way.

Which is the politest way I can say how I feel about it on MR.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by John F

I've seen ebooks at the library I frequent in epub (and PDF) only. I'm guessing that Penguin could only make the epub available.

And reading a quote from Penguin, I don't see any mention of Amazon and privacy concerns:

Maybe not discussed there but here it is mentioned again:

As we have reported multiple times, but does not seem to have seeped out into general reports or public consciousness, multiple publishers have told us that Overdrive's implementation of their Kindle library lending--in which library patrons are sent to a commercial, third-party retailer, in this case Amazon--is in their view a direct violation of Overdrive's contracts. Remember that in November, Penguin said clearly it "informed suppliers to libraries that it expected them to abide by existing agreements to offer older digital titles to libraries only if those files were held behind the firewalls of the suppliers." Not the firewalls of retailers. Also in November, Penguin said it had "subsequently been informed by Amazon that it had not been consulted by Overdrive about the terms of Penguin’s agreement with Overdrive," which, you can reasonably infer, does not allow Kindle lending the way Overdrive was executing it.

[AnemicOak]

multiple publishers have told us that Overdrive's implementation of their Kindle library lending--in which library patrons are sent to a commercial, third-party retailer, in this case Amazon--is in their view a direct violation of Overdrive's contracts.

Yet when Kindle library lending was announced as coming soon both OD and Amazon said they were still negotiating with publishers. So I'd think that pubs approved it being done. If they signed off without knowing the method that would be used that's dumb on their part. I have no problem with them not liking it, but you'd think they could do something less extreme then ending things all together, sounds to me like the Amazon stuff is either only part of it or an excuse.


Personally I always borrow ePubs as I don't want to be spammed by Amazon that I can buy the book, blah, blah, blah. I get enough email from them already.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Yet when Kindle library lending was announced as coming soon both OD and Amazon said they were still negotiating with publishers. So I'd think that pubs approved it being done. If they signed off without knowing the method that would be used that's dumb on their part. I have no problem with them not liking it, but you'd think they could do something less extreme then ending things all together, sounds to me like the Amazon stuff is either only part of it or an excuse.


Personally I always borrow ePubs as I don't want to be spammed by Amazon that I can buy the book, blah, blah, blah. I get enough email from them already.

From my reading it seems as if publishers expected Overdrive to abide by the contracts they had with publishers already already. Overdrive did not. That is a problem. Thus publishers do not want to work with Overdrive. It makes sense. Its not like publishers were fans of library lending in the first place. Now in the midst of Amazon's fight with publishers...Amazon also gets library statics and data?? Great. Just great.

So thanks, Amazon. You're screwing it up for everyone.

[tubemonkey]

Penguin - no big loss. The world is full of good reading and life will move along merrily without the likes of Penguin and other publishers who resort to such draconian restrictions.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Penguin - no big loss. The world is full of good reading and life will move along merrily without the likes of Penguin and other publishers who resort to such draconian restrictions.

I feel the same about Amazon.

But it's not like I give Penguin money...I only buy used if I feel I have to buy...but it's not like i can't see why they would do this.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

After reading a borrowed book, I have no desire to buy it. I've already read it.

I know people like that. I know people who are like that with movies. They'll go see a movie and then even 5 years later they'll be like, "I don't want to see that one, I watched it in 2006!"
I'll ask "Did you not like it?"
Them "Oh I loved it!"

Whereas I will buy a movie or a tv series and re watch it over and over again until I can memorize the lines and know which way someone's eyes wrinkled during "that crying scene" or whatnot.

I've read "Anne of Green Gables" over a hundred times, cover to cover, since I was like, 7.

I definitely get bang for my buck when I buy a book. I'll only purchase books that will be my comfort food.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I feel the same about Amazon.

But it's not like I give Penguin money...I only buy used if I feel I have to buy...but it's not like i can't see why they would do this.

I have issues with Amazon, but not with library lending. While the Big Six live in the past, Amazon is moving rapidly into the future. They're a huge threat to traditional publishers. Little wonder Penguin is lashing out in such a petty move.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I have issues with Amazon, but not with library lending. While the Big Six live in the past, Amazon is moving rapidly into the future. They're a huge threat to traditional publishers. Little wonder Penguin is lashing out in such a petty move.

I like to look to the future. And while I hate the activities of the publishers...Amazon isn't my friend, either. I know how this game works. You drive out the competitors and then you drive your prices up.

Amazon isn't doing me any favors and I can see right through them.

This isn't a case of one party being right and the other party being wrong.

This is a case of EVERYONE being wrong.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

1 - I am PISSED at AMAZON for inserting itself into my library lending activites. I feel my personal privacy was/is being invaded. I'm surprised that no one cares that Amazon was requiring all kindle library loans to go through their servers. And that if you checked out a kindle library book...Amazon would email you to buy that book. WTF. That should be a PRIVATE activity taking place between me and my city library. NOT me, my city library and Amazon trying to stick it's greedy fingers in my pocketbook. That's insane and probably the (first) reason why Penguin pulled their books. Publishers don't want Amazon to have that kind of data access. And neither do I!

You may be pissed at Amazon, but why would Penguin care? Won't Amazon will be sending out emails offering to sell Penguin books to people who are borrowing Penguin books for their Kindles?

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Synamon

You may be pissed at Amazon, but why would Penguin care? Won't Amazon will be sending out emails offering to sell Penguin books to people who are borrowing Penguin books for their Kindles?

Because Amazon is also a publisher. Which means the data being complied is a great help making future business decisions. Do you know what I could do if I had access to my competitor's customers information?! That kind of detailed information...above and beyond purchases?? There are tons of people who buy kindles and never a book from Amazon but do use libraries.

[arkietech]

Kodak tried to restrict new technology in an attempt to maintain sales on the old stuff. They just went out of business. Are you paying attention Penquin? Amazon is!

[anamardoll]

+1 to MrsJoseph.

I buy ebooks for my library (donation + wish list). I was a little flummoxed when one of my last purchases was ONLY available as a Kindle book. OK, I have the desktop application; I'll read the book that way.

I think I got a total of four emails from Amazon. YOU SURE YOU DON'T WANT TO BUY THIS? DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR NOTES? BUY? BUY? PUPPY DOG EYES!!

It was... surprisingly distressing for me. I mean, it was a freaking book on cooking, but I felt very un-private. My library reading is MY reading. I don't really want or need Amazon pounding on my email once a day saying BUY? YOU WANT TO BUY? BUY?

[andym]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

I don't think that they are freaked out that their works are going to be "previewed" in a library. I think that they are freaked out that people are going to "read" their books in a library, and then not buy the book.

Which, honestly, is a reasonable fear. I tend not to buy books I've read in the library; that's kind of the point.

I'm not sure that is the point though. In the UK authors are paid a royalty based on how many times the book is borrowed. I assume there's a similar system in the US. Now I don't know how the economics currently stack up, and it may well be that authors and publishers get more from retail sales (especially ebooks). But there's no reason in principle why a lending system can't fairly reward authors and publishers.

Music publishers seem to be happily living with subscription services.

Penguin's concerns seem to be about security and piracy.

On one level, if I were a publisher I might well be concerned at the prospect of a hacker getting into a server and downloading a big chunk of your catalogue. But computer security can be improved. Where there's a will and all that.

On the other hand the stuff about making people go to libraries seems ridiculous. Possibly Penguin executives have an idea in their mind of pirates downloading a book from their library, removing the DRM, uploading a torrent, downloading another etc etc. But there must be easier ways of preventing this - limiting the number of books you can borrow in a week (say) or using Social-DRM technology to imprint the borrower's name on every page. etc etc

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I am PISSED at AMAZON for inserting itself into my library lending activites. I feel my personal privacy was/is being invaded. I'm surprised that no one cares that Amazon was requiring all kindle library loans to go through their servers. And that if you checked out a kindle library book...Amazon would email you to buy that book. WTF. That should be a PRIVATE activity taking place between me and my city library. NOT me, my city library and Amazon trying to stick it's greedy fingers in my pocketbook. That's insane and probably the (first) reason why Penguin pulled their books. Publishers don't want Amazon to have that kind of data access. And neither do I!

If you don't have a Kindle, why are you even concerned? Frankly I enjoy the access to ebooks that Amazon provides, including the library access, and don't want it to change. Heaven forbid we would ever have to use the disaster called ADE.