Sharing ebooks???

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Is stripping drm illegal? (say, in the U.S.) I've heard that distributing drm removal software was illegal, but not the act of removing it itself. I've seen discussions regarding this but I forget what was concluded.

There is no conclusion. There is a lot of theory. I think, like exactly what constitutes fair use, the whole thing isn't crystal clear and has yet to be decided by the courts (and the courts will decide).

[amward]

Just got into this thread, does this mean that if I give my mother my ereader then buy a new on for myself, I'm not entitled to put all the books I have bought on to the new reader ? This seems pretty stupid as I could read them on the computer anyway. Almost all of mine are DRM free, so I guess I can do it, but is it illegal? And I certainly can't see that lending someone your device to read a book is any different from lending a pbook.

[DJHARKAVY]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Legal according to Amazon or Adobe but legal according to copyright? Hmmm??? Interesting thought.

The lending schemes both prevent you from reading a book while it is being loaned out, IIRC. Same as lending a paper book.

Originally Posted by kennyc

There you go again giggles. Yes, you clearly know in most cases whether you are accepting stolen property or not. It up to you to have the ethical fortitude to do the right thing.

You MIGHT be accepting text in violation of copyright. But unless the owner no longer has access to it, you are not accepting stolen property.

Copyright violation is wrong. It might cost the copyright holder some money (at least in potential earnings.) But it is not theft.

Originally Posted by kennyc

Anything else is ridiculous and will result in the destruction of society.

Nonsense. Society's destruction, if it is to come to pass, will not be as the result of a handful of people who share files illegally.

[HarryT]

Sharing your books with close family members is generally regarded as OK. Both Amazon and ePub devices have facilities which permit multiple devices to be registered to the same account. What you can't do, though, is sell your device to a stranger and leave books on it.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by skypilotpete

Funny how you like to quote the Buddha in your signature: "Strive on with awareness". In the Buddhist view, ignorance is an active process - choosing to ignore anything that doesn't fit with your view of "reality". I think there is a fundamental contradiction between your signature and your actions.

You don't know anything about me, or apparently about other things including ebooks, buddhism, or how discussion forums work. You come in here asking if it's okay to break the law and many good people are very patient with trying to explain it to you, guess you don't want to hear it though.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Everything I have is yours. Everything you have is mine. If my cats can share why can't we?

This is where you are very wrong. But I find this statement very insightful and appropriate to your perspective.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by DJHARKAVY

.
Nonsense. Society's destruction, if it is to come to pass, will not be as the result of a handful of people who share files illegally.

It could happen. Really.

No ethics, no society.

That is about as simple as I can say it.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Everything I have is yours. Everything you have is mine. If my cats can share why can't we?

Send me your cats and I'll stop challenging your convictions.

[HansTWN]

The Giggly guy apparently doesn't know much about cats either...

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Joykins

There is no conclusion. There is a lot of theory. I think, like exactly what constitutes fair use, the whole thing isn't crystal clear and has yet to be decided by the courts (and the courts will decide).

There's a list of exemptions, but the only one relevant to ebooks is if the publisher doesn't allow the "read aloud" function. I don't know how common that would be, it seems a bit petty to me but I suppose the publisher-logic would be that it would put people off buying a professionally read version when they can listen to Steven Hawkins read it for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...ion_exemptions

Other than that, definitely illegal.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by skypilotpete

I live in Australia, have a Sony e-reader, and have been continually frustrated by how few books are available to me. Like many others, I have bitten the bullet and worked out how to strip DRM from Amazon ebooks, so I can buy them and convert to Epub using Calibre. Now I am faced with the question of whether it is safe for me to share these converted ebooks with friends - as I would feel entitled to do with any other book that I purchased. I am aware that once I give a converted ebook to anyone else, what happens to it then is out of my hands. I would like to be sure that there isn't some hidden metadata remaining within a converted ebook that would allow Amazon to identify me as the original purchaser if one of my ebooks ends up on a news group or torrent site. I will certainly ask my friends not to do this, but I can't guarantee that it won't happen. Can anyone tell me if I could be identified from something within an un-drm'd, converted file?

I personally believe that the sharing of books between close friends and family members is a social convention that dates back far further then copyright and doesn't disappear just because the book is no longer distributed on pulp. For me it's a part of social culture. Trying to control down to this level is far beyond the original intent of copyright and is a huge power grab by the industry. I certainly don't want laws to get down to this level of anal detail.

I have trouble with your question though because what you're afraid of is what I would like to see replace the current DRM. What we have in place today restricts what can be done with the ebook but disregards if it's an actual copyright violation or not. The social DRM that you are concerned about it what I would like to see it replaced with. If each ebook is customized with a copyright page that includes the purchasers name, date purchased, store purchased from and a transaction number (public information) and then creates some form of bar code on a picture or map border that matches some of this information it's a much more effective form of copyright control. It doesn't limit my fair use of the ebook but it would deter people from performing large scale copyright violations.

Technically it would be possible to implement a file check that if the data on the copyright page doesn't match the hidden bar code information it's considered an authorized copy and would have to be removed immediately from file sharing sites.

If I want to lend a copy to someone it would be only to someone I trust. If I meet someone on vacation who wants to trade a 1,000 book library with me I'm not likely to do it. If I sell my ebook reader I'm going to make sure I delete my ebooks off of it first.

Sorry, I don't know what your concern is.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Send me your cats and I'll stop challenging your convictions.

There's more than enough cats for everyone! Just leave some tuna fish outside your door and some will find you!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

There's a list of exemptions, but the only one relevant to ebooks is if the publisher doesn't allow the "read aloud" function. I don't know how common that would be, it seems a bit petty to me but I suppose the publisher-logic would be that it would put people off buying a professionally read version when they can listen to Steven Hawkins read it for free.

Who's Steven Hawkins? Perchance you mean Steven Hawking?

[Tome Keeper]

Originally Posted by Barcey

I have trouble with your question though because what you're afraid of is what I would like to see replace the current DRM. What we have in place today restricts what can be done with the ebook but disregards if it's an actual copyright violation or not. The social DRM that you are concerned about it what I would like to see it replaced with. If each ebook is customized with a copyright page that includes the purchasers name, date purchased, store purchased from and a transaction number (public information) and then creates some form of bar code on a picture or map border that matches some of this information it's a much more effective form of copyright control. It doesn't limit my fair use of the ebook but it would deter people from performing large scale copyright violations.

Technically it would be possible to implement a file check that if the data on the copyright page doesn't match the hidden bar code information it's considered an authorized copy and would have to be removed immediately from file sharing sites.

If I want to lend a copy to someone it would be only to someone I trust. If I meet someone on vacation who wants to trade a 1,000 book library with me I'm not likely to do it. If I sell my ebook reader I'm going to make sure I delete my ebooks off of it first.

Sorry, I don't know what your concern is.

The issue is that whilst you might trust the person you cannot be sure where the file will end up, especially after a few years. For example: you pass it onto your mother-in-law who in turn passes it a friend, who shares it with someone at work ad nauseum and it eventually ends up on a file sharing site. File sharing sites are quite difficult to get files taken off of, mainly because they say that they are just connecting people and do not hold the files on their servers, so the copyright holder would likely come after you as your name is on the copyright page.

I too hate DRM but don't think that what you propose will solve the problem.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by intheendofdays

The issue is that whilst you might trust the person you cannot be sure where the file will end up, especially after a few years. For example: you pass it onto your mother-in-law who in turn passes it a friend, who shares it with someone at work ad nauseum and it eventually ends up on a file sharing site. File sharing sites are quite difficult to get files taken off of, mainly because they say that they are just connecting people and do not hold the files on their servers, so the copyright holder would likely come after you as your name is on the copyright page.

I too hate DRM but don't think that what you propose will solve the problem.

It depends on what your mean by solving the problem. Yes your ebooks could end up on a file sharing site with your name on them and if that happened to me I would be upset and embarrassed and wouldn't loan books to that person again. Most people wouldn't want that to happen to them and that's the point. The copyright holder could attempt to come after me but they wouldn't get very far. It's not intended to be proof of a criminal offense. My ebook reader could have been lost or stolen and then all my ebooks could end up on a file sharing site. I recognize that it won't stop file sharing from happening. I just believe that it would be much more effective then what we have today and much less restrictive on fair use.