Kinda bitter sign outside a closing Borders Store - Page 7

silasgreenback · 04-06-2011, 02:01 AM

Circa 1890:

No Restrooms.

Try Sears & Roebuck

Avarwen · 04-06-2011, 03:14 AM

I can see why they are bitter but digital is the future then next "victim will be blu ray as soon at the technology become available to store extra large files in mass discs will be a thing of the past. Amazon is not to blame here they saw a need and filled it. Borders was just too slow and now my die because of it.

bhartman36 · 04-06-2011, 09:25 AM

Borders has/had the Kobo Reader, so they could've been in the same position B&N is in, but from what I read, the Kobo Reader just isn't as good as the Nook or Kindle. So it's more than just no-pants book buying that hurt them. What really hurt them was that their transition to e-books was lackluster.

Joykins · 04-06-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Borders has/had the Kobo Reader, so they could've been in the same position B&N is in, but from what I read, the Kobo Reader just isn't as good as the Nook or Kindle. So it's more than just no-pants book buying that hurt them. What really hurt them was that their transition to e-books was lackluster.

From what I read about the time of the bankruptcy filing, Kobo was a Borders acquisition, and it was really the only segment of Borders that was doing well.

Worldwalker · 04-06-2011, 09:45 AM

The bottom line is that Borders -- even though I preferred them to B&N -- has never given me a good reason to travel to their stores, and never opened stores in locations that were convenient for me, even when I lived in the largest city in my state. (yeah, they had a store half an hour north, and a store half an hour south, but only B&N had a store there) I don't (just) shop at Amazon because of the clean bathrooms and lack of a requirement for pants. I shop at Amazon because it's right here and for me to go to Borders, I need to schedule at least two hours for the trip (realistically, 45 minutes each way due to traffic, and general travel friction seems to take up extra time). Why should I go to Borders (two hours of time, a gallon or more of gas, and the risk of going too close to Harbor Freight and being sucked in) when I can just buy the book I want without moving from this chair? Borders never gave me a good answer to that.

bhartman36 · 04-06-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

The bottom line is that Borders -- even though I preferred them to B&N -- has never given me a good reason to travel to their stores, and never opened stores in locations that were convenient for me, even when I lived in the largest city in my state. (yeah, they had a store half an hour north, and a store half an hour south, but only B&N had a store there) I don't (just) shop at Amazon because of the clean bathrooms and lack of a requirement for pants. I shop at Amazon because it's right here and for me to go to Borders, I need to schedule at least two hours for the trip (realistically, 45 minutes each way due to traffic, and general travel friction seems to take up extra time). Why should I go to Borders (two hours of time, a gallon or more of gas, and the risk of going too close to Harbor Freight and being sucked in) when I can just buy the book I want without moving from this chair? Borders never gave me a good answer to that.

The problem is broader than that. Borders had a Web site. Towards the end, they had an e-reader. You could've done no-pants shopping on either one. What Borders didn't do was give anyone a reason to do either one rather than using Amazon or B&N.

kennyc · 04-06-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

The bottom line is that Borders -- even though I preferred them to B&N -- has never given me a good reason to travel to their stores, and never opened stores in locations that were convenient for me, even when I lived in the largest city in my state. (yeah, they had a store half an hour north, and a store half an hour south, but only B&N had a store there) I don't (just) shop at Amazon because of the clean bathrooms and lack of a requirement for pants. I shop at Amazon because it's right here and for me to go to Borders, I need to schedule at least two hours for the trip (realistically, 45 minutes each way due to traffic, and general travel friction seems to take up extra time). Why should I go to Borders (two hours of time, a gallon or more of gas, and the risk of going too close to Harbor Freight and being sucked in) when I can just buy the book I want without moving from this chair? Borders never gave me a good answer to that.

Agreed!

Worldwalker · 04-06-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

The problem is broader than that. Borders had a Web site. Towards the end, they had an e-reader. You could've done no-pants shopping on either one. What Borders didn't do was give anyone a reason to do either one rather than using Amazon or B&N.

Well, yes, they had a website, but its prices were no better than Amazon's and its delivery terms were worse. And I was already an Amazon customer (I have been since Amazon started) so they had to get me to go from a business I already patronized to one I didn't. I never had any interest in the Kobo because I'd already bought a Sony 505 (at a brick-and-mortar Border's) so they weren't likely to sell me another. I don't buy DRM-locked ebooks for it, which left out most of Borders' ebook offerings.

If they'd given me a reason to drive the better part of an hour to get to their stores, I would have been a regular physical customer. They never did.

If they'd given me a reason to use their website instead of Amazon's (equal prices would have been a good start), I would have been a regular online customer. They never did.

If they'd given me a reason to replace my Sony PRS-505 Reader with a Kobo, I would at least have bought an ebook reader from them. They never did.

If they'd given me a reason to buy DRM-locked ebooks from them, I would have been a customer. They never did.

I like Borders. I don't like Borders more than I like myself, though, and they were asking me to trade things I already had and liked (my time, my money, my ebook reader, etc.) for something I didn't have and didn't like quite as much. That never works.

In business, you can be first, or you can be best. If you're neither first nor best, you're an also-ran, and you close hundreds of stores trying to stay afloat.

KenJackson · 04-06-2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Borders has/had the Kobo Reader, so they could've been in the same position B&N is in, but from what I read, the Kobo Reader just isn't as good as the Nook or Kindle. So it's more than just no-pants book buying that hurt them. What really hurt them was that their transition to e-books was lackluster.

That paragraph has a lot of past tense verbs. Borders filed for reorganization under Chapter 11, but many companies survive that and rebound. I'm not counting Borders out just yet. I know many of us are excited by the transition to ebooks, but a lot of people still like to hold paper and want to see and touch before they buy.

I think the Borders that's close to me is the biggest bookstore I've ever seen anywhere, and it's always hoping. I bought my Sony Reader there. The Kobo was my second choice.

Hellmark · 04-06-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

The problem is broader than that. Borders had a Web site. Towards the end, they had an e-reader. You could've done no-pants shopping on either one. What Borders didn't do was give anyone a reason to do either one rather than using Amazon or B&N.

You're not totally accurate. the Koboreader was never Borders exclusive, or even made by them. Kobo is a separate company, that is a business partner of Border's, because Borders subcontracted their ebook store to Kobo. The confusion comes in because Borders was one of the first stores to sell the Kobo Reader, due to that preexisting business relationship allowing for ease of establishing retail sales locations. Other stores quickly followed after Borders.

Avarwen · 04-06-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

The bottom line is that Borders -- even though I preferred them to B&N -- has never given me a good reason to travel to their stores, and never opened stores in locations that were convenient for me, even when I lived in the largest city in my state. (yeah, they had a store half an hour north, and a store half an hour south, but only B&N had a store there) I don't (just) shop at Amazon because of the clean bathrooms and lack of a requirement for pants. I shop at Amazon because it's right here and for me to go to Borders, I need to schedule at least two hours for the trip (realistically, 45 minutes each way due to traffic, and general travel friction seems to take up extra time). Why should I go to Borders (two hours of time, a gallon or more of gas, and the risk of going too close to Harbor Freight and being sucked in) when I can just buy the book I want without moving from this chair? Borders never gave me a good answer to that.

I'm in pretty much the same boat the book store I worked at closed in 07 so I had no choice but to order online as the nearest book store was 45 min now that it's closed the nearest book store is an hour+ away so in my case I don't have much of a choice besides online or an ereader.

basschick · 04-07-2011, 07:08 AM

i found the sign ironic on a different level.

for years, i'd spend a couple happy hours in our local (now closing) borders, but most of the time their restroom was closed to the public, and instead of spending several more hours blissfully wandering through various sections and picking up more books to buy, once i'd have to go, i'd have to buy what i had quickly (if there was a line, i'd have to leave the books) and rush home to use the restroom.

Joykins · 04-07-2011, 10:07 AM

I thought the Borders with cafes were required by law to keep a restroom open. And I haven't seen a Borders without one.

ApK · 04-07-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joykins

I thought the Borders with cafes were required by law to keep a restroom open. And I haven't seen a Borders without one.

I don't recall the one large Borders that was in my area several years ago having a cafe (though they had a restroom), and the Borders Expresses sure don't.

jbcohen · 04-07-2011, 10:26 AM

Actually Avaren, there is a theroy of technological advances that states that ever so once and a while technology will shift, when the technology shifts everyone goes back to zero and past sucesses guaranty nothing. What happened here is that technology shifted when Amazon entered the market and all three palyers (Borders, B&N and now Amazon) start at zero. Actually Amazon initated the shift and Borders simply was too late to the playing field and lost the game. Previous shifts in this business was 1) The shift from local stores to book stores in malls; 2) shift from mall stores to big box stores, then the recent digitial shift. I am actually anxiously awaiting the next shift beyond the digitialization of books.

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04-06-2011, 02:01 AM	#91
silasgreenback New Leaf Turner Posts: 260 Karma: 1026664 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hadestown Device: Kobo Glo	Circa 1890: No Restrooms. Try Sears & Roebuck

04-06-2011, 03:14 AM	#92
Avarwen Connoisseur Posts: 87 Karma: 12170 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: EZ_ Reader, Nook wifi, Kindle 3G	I can see why they are bitter but digital is the future then next "victim will be blu ray as soon at the technology become available to store extra large files in mass discs will be a thing of the past. Amazon is not to blame here they saw a need and filled it. Borders was just too slow and now my die because of it.

04-06-2011, 09:25 AM	#93
bhartman36 Wizard Posts: 1,323 Karma: 1515835 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Jersey, USA Device: Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Paperwhite Signature Edition (2021)	Borders has/had the Kobo Reader, so they could've been in the same position B&N is in, but from what I read, the Kobo Reader just isn't as good as the Nook or Kindle. So it's more than just no-pants book buying that hurt them. What really hurt them was that their transition to e-books was lackluster.

04-06-2011, 09:45 AM	#95
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	The bottom line is that Borders -- even though I preferred them to B&N -- has never given me a good reason to travel to their stores, and never opened stores in locations that were convenient for me, even when I lived in the largest city in my state. (yeah, they had a store half an hour north, and a store half an hour south, but only B&N had a store there) I don't (just) shop at Amazon because of the clean bathrooms and lack of a requirement for pants. I shop at Amazon because it's right here and for me to go to Borders, I need to schedule at least two hours for the trip (realistically, 45 minutes each way due to traffic, and general travel friction seems to take up extra time). Why should I go to Borders (two hours of time, a gallon or more of gas, and the risk of going too close to Harbor Freight and being sucked in) when I can just buy the book I want without moving from this chair? Borders never gave me a good answer to that.

04-07-2011, 07:08 AM	#102
basschick Wizard Posts: 1,096 Karma: 4695691 Join Date: May 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	i found the sign ironic on a different level. for years, i'd spend a couple happy hours in our local (now closing) borders, but most of the time their restroom was closed to the public, and instead of spending several more hours blissfully wandering through various sections and picking up more books to buy, once i'd have to go, i'd have to buy what i had quickly (if there was a line, i'd have to leave the books) and rush home to use the restroom.

04-07-2011, 10:07 AM	#103
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,610 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	I thought the Borders with cafes were required by law to keep a restroom open. And I haven't seen a Borders without one.

04-07-2011, 10:26 AM	#105
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	Actually Avaren, there is a theroy of technological advances that states that ever so once and a while technology will shift, when the technology shifts everyone goes back to zero and past sucesses guaranty nothing. What happened here is that technology shifted when Amazon entered the market and all three palyers (Borders, B&N and now Amazon) start at zero. Actually Amazon initated the shift and Borders simply was too late to the playing field and lost the game. Previous shifts in this business was 1) The shift from local stores to book stores in malls; 2) shift from mall stores to big box stores, then the recent digitial shift. I am actually anxiously awaiting the next shift beyond the digitialization of books.

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