WTF do publishers think they're doing ?

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by LCF

I still don't get your point. What's wrong with buying X from A rather than from B, if A offers it cheaper? Explain very simply, please.

Well, since you asked nicely...

There is absolutely nothing wrong, in my opinion, with looking for a cheaper price. Including looking abroad.

However, I am unclear on what qualifies as a "rip off" price, and whether you apply this standard across the board. It may be inconsistent to blast a US publisher for a 10% higher price on a book than the UK price, while drinking a soda that cost you $1 to buy and 15¢ to make.

If the "rip-off" trigger is an international price comparison, then we may want to keep in mind that in many cases, international price variations are a result of government policies rather than companies taking advantage of local consumers.

Separately, pricing isn't the primary issue, the problem right now is just getting access to the books in the first place.

[LCF]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

...
If the "rip-off" trigger is an international price comparison, then we may want to keep in mind that in many cases, international price variations are a result of government policies rather than companies taking advantage of local consumers.

I completely agree with that.

Separately, pricing isn't the primary issue, the problem right now is just getting access to the books in the first place.

And with that even more!

[Fayth]

I've contacted several authors about ebooks who have no idea how the geographical restrictions for ebooks work. I'm not even sure if they are entirely aware of the problem.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by queentess

Honestly, I've never understood why the hardback comes out first and the paperback much later, aside from publishers wanting to charge 3x as much for hardback.

Sounds like you understand perfectly

Lee

[dapriuk]

If the "rip-off" trigger is an international price comparison, then we may want to keep in mind that in many cases, international price variations are a result of government policies rather than companies taking advantage of local consumers.

It is usually easy to determine the tax elements - in the UK there is one sales tax (VAT) and there may or may not be an import duty. There is no VAT on paper books however so differential pricing is easier to spot in that case.

If it is very obvious that the supplier is screwing me on price - take the pre-local taxes US price and compare with the pre-local taxes UK price (ie VAT). I used to travel to the US on business a lot so had ample opportunity to compare store costs and the till receipts helpfully listed sales taxes etc.

The key word is "obvious" and suppliers risk their customer base if they jerk customers around too much too obviously. There is a saying in the UK "doing a Ratner", it refers to one Gerald Ratner who owned an eponymous jewelry store chain a few years ago. He stood up at a business conference and said he sold worthless tat at inflated prices, the result was people stopped buying their tat from him and bought it from someone else. Guess what happened to his cash flow.

As for the other stuff I don't smoke, don't drink sugared water and my prescription meds are at a fixed rate.

If a supplier sells me stuff at too high a price and then when I find out they start throwing worthless excuses at me I will simply try to go elsewhere as I clearly cannot trust them any more. This means all my business goes elsewhere, I simply don't have the time to check that I'm not being stung on other items. I have done this with software providers, insurance, banking, food, electronics goods, cars. There are some brands and some suppliers I simply will not do business with, ever.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by dapriuk

If it is very obvious that the supplier is screwing me on price - take the pre-local taxes US price and compare with the pre-local taxes UK price (ie VAT). I used to travel to the US on business a lot so had ample opportunity to compare store costs and the till receipts helpfully listed sales taxes etc.

That may be the case in the UK, but you need to take more factors into consideration when comparing prices using exchange rates. For example, in Australia (as the OP stated) book prices are a lot higher than in other countries. A big factor in this is that Australians have a relatively high cost of living as well as relatively high incomes.

For example you can buy a beer in Thailand for 50c (AUD$) but in Australia you'd pay about AUD$3. Does this make Australian pubs a ripoff? No, their costs are much higher and Australians have much more income with which to buy beer.

Of course, tax, etc. plays a part too. Australians pay more tax on most things. In short, economies vary.

Amazon is great because Kindle book prices are a lot lower than paper books here in Australia. US$9.99 - US$12.99 for most books I buy compared to around AUD$25 (~US$20) for most paperbacks.

Geographical restrictions are horrid, and a relic of old business ways. I'm sure that eventually they will erode as publishers consolidate and places like Amazon expand. I've noticed at least one pretty minor Australian author is now on Kindle, so that critical mass point is approaching. In fact, I've noticed quite a few books become available in Australia that I couldn't buy a few months ago.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

in Australia (as the OP stated) book prices are a lot higher than in other countries. A big factor in this is that Australians have a relatively high cost of living as well as relatively high incomes.

Sorry, I fail to see how that has a direct influence on the cost side of things for a foreign publisher. Wages are not much of an issue, either, with a virtual store. Taxes are obvious, much of the rest is just "the market will bear it = profit maximization". Which in itself is not illegal but tends to piss people off if done in too obvious a manner.

Geographical restrictions are horrid, and a relic of old business ways.

I'm glad we agree.

[wyndslash]

@rogue: i love your avatar

[dapriuk]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

That may be the case in the UK, but you need to take more factors into consideration when comparing prices using exchange rates. For example, in Australia (as the OP stated) book prices are a lot higher than in other countries. A big factor in this is that Australians have a relatively high cost of living as well as relatively high incomes.
...
Geographical restrictions are horrid, and a relic of old business ways. I'm sure that eventually they will erode as publishers consolidate and places like Amazon expand. I've noticed at least one pretty minor Australian author is now on Kindle, so that critical mass point is approaching. In fact, I've noticed quite a few books become available in Australia that I couldn't buy a few months ago.

My point is that with digital media and no translation requirement I simply don't have to take any other factors into consideration. I can chose not to buy or buy something different. The internet makes it very difficult to price by geography and your customers not notice it. Cost of living/average income levels have absolutely nothing to do with it - if I see the same product is sold elsewhere for less I feel I am being ripped off, no two ways about it.

As a customer I don't have to put up with this, if I have the option I will go with another supplier who gives me better value for money and if I can I tell the ex-supplier why he has lost my business. If the ex-supplier has been particularly nasty then there are plenty of forums to highlight their behaviour.

BTW - Geo restrictions have been with DVDs from the start and have not gone away.

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by dapriuk

Cost of living/average income levels have absolutely nothing to do with it - if I see the same product is sold elsewhere for less I feel I am being ripped off, no two ways about it.

i am not completely sure that average income levels/cost of living "absolutely" have nothing to do with it, but I can agree with you on that when it comes to electronics. the electronics being sold here are horribly overpriced, and the electronics from Singapore and Hong Kong are quite cheaper (relative to here in Asia, I mean), but that's also because I know that most parts here are being imported, and as I know, Hong Kong is a free port, and Singapore has free trade agreements with several Asian neighbors that make their electronics cheaper. (on my part, that is XD; just wanted to put in my one-cent opinion )

[dncharles]

Originally Posted by queentess

As a reader, I really prefer an editor to get hold of the work before I read it. Have you tried to stumble through some of the dreck on Smashwords? I would argue that a publisher provides very valuable services.

Help- my dreck is on Smashwords! But I will not take your comment to heart until I read your dreck - with or without a publisher.

(And btw Amazon is greedy - if you have shareholders you are obliged to be greedy - "Anyone who says differently is selling something." - Princess Bride)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by dncharles

Help- my dreck is on Smashwords! But I will not take your comment to heart until I read your dreck - with or without a publisher.

But I'm sure that you have the wisdom to have your books professionally edited. Most of the "dreck" comes from the unwise majority who are too short-sighted to do this.

[dncharles]

Harry - you're too kind. Please accept a free copy of my 'Child'.
Just get onto smashwords.com/books/view/33989 and use coupon EG68M to check it out gratis. I think you'll find a version for each of your e-readers! (only for Harry, right. I'm watching you Queentess!)

[elcreative]

Since we're especially interested in digital media, although paper books are zero rated in the UK, eBooks are subject to VAT at the Standard Rate of 20% so a £6 book is a £5 book plus £1.00 VAT... things like that make a considerable difference in pricing across borders...

Originally Posted by dapriuk

It is usually easy to determine the tax elements - in the UK there is one sales tax (VAT) and there may or may not be an import duty. There is no VAT on paper books however so differential pricing is easier to spot in that case.

[chamekke]

OK, here's another question.

Why, why, why would a publisher make ebooks available for some of the titles in a series (trilogy or tetralogy) and not all of them?

One of my favourite works is John Crowley's Aegypt/Solitudes tetralogy. You can buy volumes 1, 2 and 4 in ebook format from the Kindle store on Amazon.com, but volume 3 (Daemonomania) is unavailable except in hard-copy format.

Or take Pat Barker's Regeneration series. You can buy volumes 1 and 2 in ebook format, no problem, but not the third and final volume (The Ghost Road).

I cannot understand the logic here. As a reader, I either want all the books in the series, or none at all. (My guess is that I'm typical of anyone who makes it past the first volume and wants to continue reading.) So: does Crowley's publisher actually imagine that when the reader gets to the end of volume 2, s/he'll either dash out and buy the DTB version, or just shrug and say "I guess I don't really need to know what happened next" and proceed directly to volume 4?

Although I dislike geographic restrictions, I do understand the principle of them. I don't get this at all.

P.S. The same gaps in availability exist for the ePub versions as well, e.g. I searched the B&N site for Crowley's tetralogy and discovered that it's exactly the same there.