Will Kindle become the ereader orphan?

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I can just about handle "Time items or less" at the supermarket, but not "Less layout options".

Sorry, I don't see what I did wrong there...

The Kobo has more layout options than the Kindle, so the Kindle has less layout options than the Kobo...

But that has nothing to do with the issue on hand!

On the other hand, most people don't even see the distinction between Kindle and Kobo. Over here, it's mostly Kobo's that are sold, so people will less likely call an ereader a Kindle than in the US.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Sorry, I don't see what I did wrong there...

The Kobo has more layout options than the Kindle, so the Kindle has less layout options than the Kobo...

But that has nothing to do with the issue on hand!

On the other hand, most people don't even see the distinction between Kindle and Kobo. Over here, it's mostly Kobo's that are sold, so people will less likely call an ereader a Kindle than in the US.

It's a common problem. Photocopiers have different names but many refer to the task as getting a Xerox. Likewise Rollerblades are just one brand of skates but most everyone seems to refer to all inline skates as Rollerblades. I'm sure there are other examples too. Kindle is just following that same trend to calling all of a particular product a given name that really only applies to one brand.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by crich70

It's a common problem. Photocopiers have different names but many refer to the task as getting a Xerox. Likewise Rollerblades are just one brand of skates but most everyone seems to refer to all inline skates as Rollerblades. I'm sure there are other examples too. Kindle is just following that same trend to calling all of a particular product a given name that really only applies to one brand.

Kleenex is another good example.

[DMB]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Sorry, I don't see what I did wrong there...

The Kobo has more layout options than the Kindle, so the Kindle has less layout options than the Kobo...

But that has nothing to do with the issue on hand!

On the other hand, most people don't even see the distinction between Kindle and Kobo. Over here, it's mostly Kobo's that are sold, so people will less likely call an ereader a Kindle than in the US.

Don't worry about it. The word "more" has two opposites, not one. They are "less" and "fewer".

"Fewer" is applied only to countable things; "less" to everything else.

So I can say "I have fewer children than you" but "less money than you". But plenty of native speakers don't use "fewer" and use "less" every time.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by DMB

Don't worry about it. The word "more" has two opposites, not one. They are "less" and "fewer".

"Fewer" is applied only to countable things; "less" to everything else.

That's too strong.

Fowler notes that this is only true 'in most circumstances', and devotes several hundred words to elucidating some of the circumstances when this is not so. Huddleston & Pullum's Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, as ever, goes into further detail, devoting pages 1126--1128 to the problem, with examples of less use that do not match your expectations including countable entities such as amounts of time (She left less than ten minutes ago), comparatives following no in which both are valid (He made no less/fewer than fifteen mistakes), or after a numeral (You pass if you make ten mistakes or less) and others... this is horribly complicated and nobody quite knows why the language has settled out as it has, whether it has settled out, or what the rules even are. As usual with famous rules of thumb, it is tangled by people overcorrecting, with some people no doubt considering that some of Huddleston's examples would be valid with fewer, though to me they would all seem horrifically clumsy that way.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by NullNix

That's too strong.

Fowler notes that this is only true 'in most circumstances', and devotes several hundred words to elucidating some of the circumstances when this is not so. Huddleston & Pullum's Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, as ever, goes into further detail, devoting pages 1126--1128 to the problem, with examples of less use that do not match your expectations including countable entities such as amounts of time (She left less than ten minutes ago), comparatives following no in which both are valid (He made no less/fewer than fifteen mistakes), or after a numeral (You pass if you make ten mistakes or less) and others... this is horribly complicated and nobody quite knows why the language has settled out as it has, whether it has settled out, or what the rules even are. As usual with famous rules of thumb, it is tangled by people overcorrecting, with some people no doubt considering that some of Huddleston's examples would be valid with fewer, though to me they would all seem horrifically clumsy that way.

Sounds like the usual for the English language -- every rule has more exceptions than conforming items.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by shalym

Really? Is it being reported in the regular media? If so, I haven't seen it, and neither have any of the people who come to me for questions about their Kindles. I've seen it reported on some of the tech sites, but nothing so far from any non-tech places.

Shari

PC Magazine
The Register
International Business Times
The Guardian

To name but some...

[BenG]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Sounds like the usual for the English language -- every rule has more exceptions than conforming items.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll

And you know what English is? The result of the efforts of Norman men-at-arms to make dates with Saxon barmaids in the Ninth Century Pre-Atomic, and no more legitimate than any of the other results.

--H. Beam Piper, Little Fuzzy

[Timboli]

There are many aspects to the format wars, and personally I don't see the possibility of any change on the near horizon ... except that some non-kindle ereaders will be forced to give up.

Amazon have got nothing to lose staying as they are, and while they might possibly benefit from also supporting epubs, they could then be charged with having a monopoly.

As things stand, those not wanting to bypass DRM, can in fact buy another ereader that supports the other format. In fact, it is recommended to have more than one ereader ... certainly I do ... one never knows when you may need a second one ... battery issue, device dies, family member wants to borrow, left it somewhere, etc. I don't know about others, but when I am deep into reading something, I don't want any interruptions or impediments.

As it stands, from my perspective, Apple aside, Amazon is winning the war .... mostly because of ebook price and availability, plus e-ink device cost and quality.

And of course the perfect way to get a second device, is to get a tablet, which with apps can support all ebook formats ... and then most have a good phone these days, which can double as a mini tablet ... so at very least, a backup ereader in time of need ... but also due to nearly always being with you, a handy way to keep reading when stuck on a bus at the doctors, etc, etc.

I have two Kindles and a Samsung 9.7" tablet, and they serve all my ebook needs. My non Kindle ebook purchases, number less than a dozen (over several years), and not for want of trying. The price does it for me every time, so Amazon generally wins hands down. I get constant emails from Kobo, because I made a couple of purchases way back when, one of which I have read on my tablet, because of DRM ... not yet read the other. The others were from Lulu.com (no DRM) and a few from various bookstores, and once from a publisher (all no DRM ... I think) ... some I've read, after converting from PDF. Several I had to edit with Sigil because of bad formatting.

For a while, I visited the Kobo store regularly, due to promises in emails. However they never lived up to the hype, either because it never covered books I was interested in (which is a lot) or because even the so-called discounts were still at least 50 cents dearer than the same ebook at Amazon. I still check them out every now and then, hoping things will improve, but they never have, not once yet.

For those who bought a Kobo device, you have my sympathy, for you have been locked into spending more than you needed to with your ebook purchases ... unless of course, you have another device like a tablet or Kindle ... or can deal with DRM. I also occasionally check the other bookstores, but most are even dearer than Kobo.

As for availability of Amazon ebooks in other countries outside the USA, it is only a matter of time. That said, when I bought my first Kindle in AUS, Amazon didn't have a local store here, so all my purchases were from the main US store, and still are. I could swap to our local store now, because prices are generally the same (exchange rate included), but I find two reasons not to - (1) can take a few days for price to match, changing at the US store first. (2) some items available to me at the US store, and not available via the AUS store. So I imagine those from other countries can indeed purchase direct from the US store if they don't yet have their own, but I guess language may be a factor ... one I never had, with English being my default anyway.

In all likelihood, it may be the translating that is holding up the appearance of other local Amazon stores around the world. No point opening a store without enough product to sell, especially when the main US store will do meanwhile.

P.S. As for the 'less' and 'fewer' argument. I cannot recall using the word 'fewer' ever, so while one word may be more correct in certain circumstances, they by all arguments, are pretty interchangeable, so why would you write a slightly longer word when a shorter one will do. To me, the word 'fewer' seems almost archaic, though because I am a prolific reader I have seen it in use many times ... perhaps more so in older publications. Just because I can't recall using 'fewer', doesn't mean I never have ... I suspect I have, but just not in recent times I am guessing. It is fair to say, that I do write a lot at times, and so may have used it ... who knows, I wasn't paying attention at the time probably ... just letting the words flow out unimpeded from my consciousness. When it comes to communication, people understanding is all, not the exact method of delivery.

[pdurrant]

I'm a little embarrassed that what was intended as a mildly humorous post has generated so many follow-ups....


.... I would have expected fewer.

[HarryT]

Knowing MR, I would have expected at fewest the number of responses you got .