If you lost your Ebook reader,...

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Such as what, for example?

Hi Harry!

Oh you know, things like glow in the dark screen, dictionary, comfortable, easy to convert other formats to work on it, and as I was reminded yesterday, it can be jiggered to surf the web (somewhat, although I never tried it). And it's tough also - I can fall asleep and drop it onto the floor without any damage.

Until they come out with a device that does all of that AND has a color screen AND is still only $139, I'm sticking with it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Hi Harry!

Oh you know, things like glow in the dark screen

Why would I want a "glow in the dark" screen? I read when it's light. If it's dark, I switch on a light.

dictionary

Yep - my Gen3 has that. How many hundred different dictionaries are available for the 1150?

comfortable

Yep.

easy to convert other formats to work on it

Sorry, why should I, as a user, have to "convert" files to work on it? I want to be able to buy content that just plain works on it.

and as I was reminded yesterday, it can be jiggered to surf the web (somewhat, although I never tried it).

OK, but I have other devices on which I can surf the web...

And it's tough also - I can fall asleep and drop it onto the floor without any damage.

As I've said on several occasions, I routinely (at least a couple of times a week) fall asleep reading on my Gen3 and wake up to find it on the floor. I've been doing that for a year now with no damage.

Until they come out with a device that does all of that AND has a color screen AND is still only $139, I'm sticking with it.

I'm happy that you have a device that suits you, but I think that it's a little bit misleading to say that other devices are "dreaming" of being able to do these things .

Oh, can you read for a month without having to recharge, by the way?

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by HarryT

W

Oh, can you read for a month without having to recharge, by the way?

At the rate I'm going now, I'd have to say "yes," because I only get to pause and switch it on for a few mins a day. I need a quiet rainy weekend to read and nap.

[ProDigit]

I think color displays are about 1,5 years down the road..So you'll need to have some patience.
I decided I'd give b&W screens a try,since books are generally B&W.

Also, in 2 years time it's time for a new device anyways. Then I'd buy a color one.
At least I'll have an idea about what I like and dislike about an e-reader,and compare the newer, what it has to offer.

Has anyone seen the OLED designs of lately?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcAm3KihFho

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Also, besides being able to read non DRM'd LRF files, what exactly does calibre gain you then?

Of course, many Sony users are buying .LIT files, "liberating" them and converting them to LRF which is the mainstay of calibre.

The biggest thing it gained you when it first came out was the ability to put ebooks on your PRS-500 which did NOT mount as an external storage device on Mac/Linux. So, the only option before calibre was to use an SD card to move data from a Mac/Linux to a PRS-500.

But, even though I primarily use my Kindle now... for the ebooks that I get from places other than the Kindle store I use calibre to organize all those files. It allows for tags, sorting, searching etc. And, the newest version stores the ebooks on the file system only storing metadata in the database. So, your ebook files are organized nicely on your hard drive in an Author => Book folder hierarcy that makes it easy to find the file you want to transer to the device with explorer/finder.

Yes, you can put .txt ebooks in it. I've done that. Read the free Firefly ebook .txt file on the review Jetbook that I had.

BOb

[bill_mchale]

Bob,
Cool, thanks. I really, really wanted to like the Sony. The hardware on it is great. I am really 50/50 on the whole eInk thing so that was a wash for me. I knew using Calibre that I would have been able to use the Sony, and frankly, I think that the the PRS readers represent the best design of the eInk reader from a user standpoint. But Sony as a company has annoyed me time and again with a lot of their practices, especially when it comes to DRM stuff.

In any case, I definitely want a diversity of readers available in the market place. An overall standard like ePub (minus DRM) would be best, but until then, I will do my part to make sure that the market remains as jumbled as possible.



--
Bill

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Bob,
Cool, thanks. I really, really wanted to like the Sony.

I guess my point was get calibre. It is useful even if you don't have a Sony.

BOb

[Milarepa]

If I lost my ebook reader.....I would curl up into a ball and die!!!

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by Milarepa

If I lost my ebook reader.....I would curl up into a ball and die!!!

That's bad man....

[JSWolf]

[QUOTE=bill_mchale;272147]The format support concerned me somewhat, but once I figured out that it is fairly easy to convert .lit, .ereader and .mobi files into html and from there into .fb2, my concern was resolved. I hope they support other formats in the future, but I am confident I will be able to read whatever novel I want to on it.[/quite]

I'll use the 505 and Gen3 as examples here.

You say you have to figure out how to convert to FB2. With the 505 Calibre will convert DRM-free lit & prc easily to LRF. Also, HTML converts easily as well. The Gen3 will deal with DRM-free PRC as it is. Also Mobipocket Publisher will convert exploded LIT and HTML pretty easily as well. You don't have to "figure out how to go from A to B." The solutions are out there and very easy ti use.

Things I liked;
1. It simply acts as a USB drive on your computer; therefore unlike the Sony or the ebookwise 1150, no special hoops or software are needed to get books onto the device; especially since I have a Mac and a Linux box. I don't run Windows.

Both the 505 and Gen3 act as mass storage devices. So that's a feature they all have in common.

2. I like the fact that it is a bit smaller than than the 6" devices. I know the 6" devices are not huge, but for me the ideal device is one that will give me the most screen real estate possible that will fit in my pocket .

Also a smaller screen for less on screen. 6" is the minimum (IMHO) for a portable reader.

3. eInk is not really a mature technology yet. While it has a lot of advantages, its screen refresh time is not one of them. Also the glass substrate that is used makes it somewhat more fragile than LCDs (Granted in a metal design like the Sony, this problem is minimized). The grey scale LCD in the Jetbook is fast, and from the reviews easy to read and easy on the eyes. Now, I bet if we are having this conversation in a couple of years (or maybe even a year from now) this will not be true.. but I am not waiting a year to get an ebook reader.

The screen refresh of Vizplex is just as fast as turning a page in a book. By the time the page is turned, my eyes are at the top of the next page ready to read. It's really no different speed wise to turning a pBook page and having to move your eyes to the top of the left hand page. Yes, the LCD is probably faster, but it takes more power to have that image viewed on the LCD screen then it does on an eink screen. So that equates to less time reading and more time charging.

Granted, eink screens are more fragile. But I've had my 505 since they first came out, I carry it around a lot and no damage.

3. It has no DRM based reader on it. Again, I would have been willing to go for eReader based DRM, but not any other scheme. So that being said, why should I subsidize Mobi or Amazon by buying devices that pay them to have their DRM format on them? I have no intention of using that DRM after all.

If you purchased a 505, you would not be subsidizing Amazon at all. And the 505 and Gen3 also read DRM-free formats as well. LRF is without DRM and Mobipocket can be without DRM. Just purchase in LIT, strip the DRM, explode with lit2oeb, use lit2lrf or Mobipocket Publisher and you have a DRM free file you can use on a 505 or a Gen3. No money going to Amazon at all.

4. MSRP for the Jetbook might be $350, but street price is really $300, which is close to or considerably less than the street price of all the other major readers except the ebookwise.

Sony sells the 505 for $299.99. How is the Jetbook considerably less? And I took a look online last night and found B&H selling the 505 for $267.99. That's less then the Jetbook. So the prce of the Jetbook is high especially given the old technology being used. The LCD screen for the Jetbook should be selling for a lot less then an eink screen especially since the LCD screen is smaller in size.

Anyway, those are some of my reasons.

--
Bill

Did you actually look into the benefits of say a 505 or a Gen3?

Heck, get a V3 (no idea the price to get one in the USA) and you'll spend a lot less time converting content other then removing DRM.

But for the 505 & Gen3, converting content is easy and you don't have to actually go hunting the net for something to convert to FB2. Book Designer will output FB2 format. But, I don't know how good it's FB2 output is. PLus, you have to manage the text once it's in BD. With Calibre and Mobipocket Publisher, the work is a lot easier.

So basically, what advantages does the Jetbook actually have over the 505, Gen3, or V3? It's not price as the 505 can be had for less. It's not easy of content conversion as the 505, Gen3, & V3 have it all over the Jetbook in that regrad. It's not screen size as the 6" screen is nicer then the 5" screen. It's not power consumpsion as eink uses less pwer then LCD. I just don't see it.

When you see free eBook available in multiple formats, FB2 is not one of them, so you'll end up having to spend a lot more time converting then you would for the eink devices.

[JSWolf]

And to be on topic, if my 505 broke, I'd be considering another 505 or maybe a V3. But then, it depends when it broke. Because if other devices were due out soon enough, I'd look into Plastic Logic, and Astak with there rebadged V3.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

That's bad man....

No, actually, thats the way most of us feel...........

[bill_mchale]

[QUOTE=JSWolf;273632]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

The format support concerned me somewhat, but once I figured out that it is fairly easy to convert .lit, .ereader and .mobi files into html and from there into .fb2, my concern was resolved. I hope they support other formats in the future, but I am confident I will be able to read whatever novel I want to on it.[/quite]

I'll use the 505 and Gen3 as examples here.

You say you have to figure out how to convert to FB2. With the 505 Calibre will convert DRM-free lit & prc easily to LRF. Also, HTML converts easily as well. The Gen3 will deal with DRM-free PRC as it is. Also Mobipocket Publisher will convert exploded LIT and HTML pretty easily as well. You don't have to "figure out how to go from A to B." The solutions are out there and very easy ti use.

Actually, I said that I had figured it out; there is a bit of difference there. Granted Calibre seems like a fantastic tool, and a real example of what a difference a dedicated person or small group can do for the cause of eReading. That being said, if we are going to judge ebook readers, not on their own merits, but on the merits of third party developers, then franly the only real choices for ebook reading would be the Sony, the iPod Touch/iPhone and various PDAs and computers that support several third party reading applications.

I will grant that .fb2 is not my first choice of standards; but then again, until the eBook industry arrives at a standard, DRM free, format, I won't have a first choice.

Both the 505 and Gen3 act as mass storage devices. So that's a feature they all have in common.

I will grant that I did make a mistake there, but that is based on a history of incompatibility I have had with Sony products. In fact, I have a sony Discman that will mount as a mass storage device, but it will not allow me to transfer music to and from it via the mass storage mounting.

Also a smaller screen for less on screen. 6" is the minimum (IMHO) for a portable reader.

Well that is always a matter of personal preference. I have been reading for about a month now on the iPod touch which has a 3.5" screen. I will grant it is a little cramped, but it is perfectly readable. given that 5" has more than twice the area of a 3.5" screen, and still manages to have 70% of the area as a 6" screen, and I think it will make a decent compromise, particularly considering the greater portability of the smaller device.

The screen refresh of Vizplex is just as fast as turning a page in a book. By the time the page is turned, my eyes are at the top of the next page ready to read. It's really no different speed wise to turning a pBook page and having to move your eyes to the top of the left hand page. Yes, the LCD is probably faster, but it takes more power to have that image viewed on the LCD screen then it does on an eink screen. So that equates to less time reading and more time charging.

This is an issue that alot of hash has been made of. Simple fact is that on a good day, I spend about 3-5 hours reading (maybe a bit more on the weekend). Pretty much every dedicated reading device out there, plus iPod Touch has more than sufficient battery power to allow me to read uninterrupted for as long as I want during a day. The Jetbook has enough battery for more than 20 hours which means I will only need to charge it once every few days. Since I sleep 6-8 hours a day, it seems to me that I can plug it into charge when I go to bed and have a fully charged device in the morning. I suspect we will find this true of every person here who reads on an ebookwise, iPod Touches, Nokia netpads, etc. Granted, it might be a bit more limiting on travel; but I believe you can get a travel adapter for the jetbook easily enough.

In other words, I seriously doubt many have their reading habits seriously curtailed by the more limited battery life of the jetbook (or the ebookwise for that matter).

Granted, eink screens are more fragile. But I've had my 505 since they first came out, I carry it around a lot and no damage.

True, but why take a chance when LCDs work just fine as well.

If you purchased a 505, you would not be subsidizing Amazon at all. And the 505 and Gen3 also read DRM-free formats as well. LRF is without DRM and Mobipocket can be without DRM. Just purchase in LIT, strip the DRM, explode with lit2oeb, use lit2lrf or Mobipocket Publisher and you have a DRM free file you can use on a 505 or a Gen3. No money going to Amazon at all.

Sight, its not Amazon I don't want to give money to, its any DRM based format. I won't buy books with DRM, and I won't buy devices with it either (again, with the possible exception of a pin based DRM like ereader used). If I buy a Sony, I am suplementing both Sony and Adobe's DRM scheme (as I am sure Sony pays a license fee to Adobe), likewise, any Mobi based reader will pay a license fee to Amazon for its use.

Sony sells the 505 for $299.99. How is the Jetbook considerably less? And I took a look online last night and found B&H selling the 505 for $267.99. That's less then the Jetbook. So the prce of the Jetbook is high especially given the old technology being used. The LCD screen for the Jetbook should be selling for a lot less then an eink screen especially since the LCD screen is smaller in size.

I didn't say I found it for less, I said I found it for around the same price as the PRS models. I hadn't seen the 505 on sale at B&H, but most of the prices for the 505 are around the same price as the Jetbook. Now regarding the notion that it should sell for a lot less; you are basing your assumption based on the notion that the screen is a huge part of the price and that the LCD is necessarily going to be significantly smaller. I read somewhere (maybe on one of these forums) where they gave a breakdown on the costs of an ebook reader, and IIRC, the eInk screen was around $50-60. Now I am sure an LCD is cheaper, but its not free, so if we assume it costs around $25 (after all, the specific style of LCD appears to only appear on a limited class of devices just like eInk), that represents less than a 10% difference in the cost of the devices. Further, we have to recognize the fact that the Jetbook does have features the Sony lacks like a built in Dictionary and t9 text recognition. The company selling it is also smaller than Sony so they probably don't have the economies of scale involved.

Did you actually look into the benefits of say a 505 or a Gen3?

Heck, get a V3 (no idea the price to get one in the USA) and you'll spend a lot less time converting content other then removing DRM.

Have you actually read my posts regarding DRM? Lets remember a few things.

1. Breaking DRM, is a violation of the law in the USA (courtesy of the DMCA). Therefore you are suggesting that I break the law.
2. Every time someone buys a book or a book reader with DRM in it, the company that did the DRM probably is getting a license fee. It convinces the sellers that there is a market for DRM'd works. As a result, I refuse to buy ANY product that supports DRM other than eReader since eReader is not tied to your device, nor to central servers that can be shutdown (even eReader I am ambivilent about, but I am willing to compromise on their style of DRM if its the only option).
3. Number 2 is true, even if I then break the law and strip DRM.

But for the 505 & Gen3, converting content is easy and you don't have to actually go hunting the net for something to convert to FB2. Book Designer will output FB2 format. But, I don't know how good it's FB2 output is. PLus, you have to manage the text once it's in BD. With Calibre and Mobipocket Publisher, the work is a lot easier.

I do not run Windows; any solution I use has to work with Mac and Linux (preferably both). Book Designer is a Windows only platform. Mobipocket Publisher is also Windows only.

Calibre to its credit works on any platform, but then again, so does html2fb2.pl (Granted I had to tweek the script a bit to get it to work, but I am getting clean output for it now).

So basically, what advantages does the Jetbook actually have over the 505, Gen3, or V3? It's not price as the 505 can be had for less. It's not easy of content conversion as the 505, Gen3, & V3 have it all over the Jetbook in that regrad. It's not screen size as the 6" screen is nicer then the 5" screen. It's not power consumpsion as eink uses less pwer then LCD. I just don't see it.

1. Its lack of support for DRM.
2. I actually want a smaller than 6" screen, so I am perfectly happy with it.
3. Too many of the other conversion solutions are based on Windows. Calibre does offer a solution for Macs... but I refuse to support DRM.

When you see free eBook available in multiple formats, FB2 is not one of them, so you'll end up having to spend a lot more time converting then you would for the eink devices.

Yep, you are right.. but I am reasonably confident that in the future, the Jetbook will offer support for other formats; in particular html and ePub. Until then, it only takes a minute or so for me to convert an html file into an fb2 file. A minute more if I have to convert it from .lit. Not exactly a huge task.

--
Bill

[AndiR]

I did lose my Sony 500 but purchased a 505!
Great choice for my needs!
AndiR

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And to be on topic, if my 505 broke, I'd be considering another 505 or maybe a V3. But then, it depends when it broke. Because if other devices were due out soon enough, I'd look into Plastic Logic, and Astak with there rebadged V3.

Last time Iread,the Plastic Logic reader was pushed back to Q2 2009.
So that'll be another 1/2 years waiting untill..
Just mentioning..

I've decided I'm going to wait until the Sony PRS-700 comes out, and then make a decision.
Battery life sure is going to be one of the main factors determening wether I'd go for a 700 or not, but I don't really have my hopes up high.
the Leds consume lot battery, just like the audioplayer, batteries will not last an 8hour day with leds on.
But maybe leds off will do well in battery life.
Also batteries have gone down in price a LOT lately,I mean a similar battery as the on in the PRS-505 can be bought for $10 ($15 with shipping included).
So I hope sony upgraded the battery in their newer 700,or maybe even thought of equipping it with 2 battery compartments. (which would be a great idea, but most likely not be a feat. implied in the 700)

but that is based on a history of incompatibility I have had with Sony products. In fact, I have a sony Discman that will mount as a mass storage device, but it will not allow me to transfer music to and from it via the mass storage mounting.

I understand that part about Sony; that is one of the reasons Sony can keep up with the market so well, to keep everything within the 'sony club'.
They rarely offer compatibility with other then their products, even things like opensource products,like eg: .ogg music support, which costs them way less than mp3 licence fees, they would not think of using...

Many times this has steered me away from buying a Sony product, however,I think they are learning from their daughter company Aiwa, which is just the opposite, and produces products that are very compatible (but also lower quality).
The reader has enough support to read non-sony pages.
Also, peering at a 5" backlit display really can strain your eyes... E-ink is a lot more gentle to the eyes, and although there are 5" readers out there with 800x600 resolution,that are good for text files, they do not display larger pdf files very well..
I just wanted to mention that..