A Heads up re B&H Photo Video for non U.S. buyers

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by columbus

Good customer service? - those viewing this unnecessarily long thread will decide for themselves.

I would say your situation sucks...and I think you did indeed stumble across a flaw in the international ordering system. I am not certain, I would need to re-read my merchant account terms, but it is possible that even if the transaction had been canceled you would still have been charged the fees by your CC company. I am not sure but I have had similar issues when selling internationally.

International selling, even for larger-ish companies like B&H can be somewhat risky for the seller, remember the buyer is always protected by the CC company the seller is really not. Sellers have rules we must follow in order to be covered by fraud protection and trust me here, it is NEVER in the favor of the merchant.

Here is a really silly example, I do not know about outside the US, but in the US any merchant who accepts credit cards cannot, I repeat CANNOT, require a minimum purchase to use the card. That means a customer can buy a $0.10 item with their CC and the merchant cannot refuse or they will risk not only losing their account but can, and this is the most likely result, their rates will increase. And again believe me here, the merchant card services are always looking for ways to charge the merchant a higher discount rate.

One single fraudulent international transaction can also have the same or worse results to the merchant. This is why many have what seem to be quite draconian restrictions when located in the US and shipping outside the US. Most are very willing to make exceptions for customers who have an established purchase history and may have special needs on an order.

And YES I know you likely have dealt with some merchants willing to ship anywhere, but likely they are already paying maximum fees with some merchant card service which caters to high risk clients because that is the only place they could get covered.

Something you should consider is working with your card provider to setup a verified shipping address on your account. This is indeed possible and vendors can ship safely to those addresses.

Last I would ask again have you called Harry? Or asked him to call you to at least have a civil conversation about this...I have spoken with him about a tough situation where I ordered a lense which I had overnighted but something about that copy and my camera simply did not mesh well. So I had to return it BUT I also had to have it that weekend and we were already on Thursday night. So Harry called me Friday with a proposed solution and B&H ate the extra cost of Saturday delivery as long as I paid for the overnight on the 2nd lense. I was very happy with the arrangement and once they received the RMA lense I received a full refund including the original shipping. To help things I decided the right thing for me to do was return the lense via Priority Mail on Friday so it would arrive to B&H on Monday (I am in California but get 2-day delivery on PM to NYC area) I paid the return shipping so we could get the refund processed right away, which happened.

But this all came about because we communicated and I accepted that problems happen and Harry was doing what he could to make things work. He made me a happy customer, and we are not talking about a very expensive lense as lenses go but it was crucial for my work. Together we figured out a solution.

So, while I completely appreciate your situation if you are still not happy, and in a way I would not be either, call him or visa-versa to figure out a way so you can order from them. Maybe even a letter from your credit card provider/bank...I don't know the ins and outs of such things in the EU.

So, you can choose to be angry or understand this kinda crap happens every now and then, but know this, when you really need them B&H is the sort of company that will find a way to make it work. What I see here is some discussion "face to face" is needed. If you can't work a deal maybe if it is OK with Harry, I'll step up and PayPal you the $25 in cash and you send me the card...hehehehe....but dang it you pay the postage!! Just trying to lighten things up is all but am serious too. Hope it all works for you.

[roger the rabbit]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I have a feeling that it's reached the point where very few are even listening. It's over and done with.
Stitchawl

That I think is just your opinion, as the view count continues to rise. I am sure you are not trying to speak for everybody.

I am certainly interested to see if the merchant will finally correct what is obviously their error. And maybe regain some of the good will they seem uncaring about loosing.

I also wonder why some posters seem intent on turning the blame on to the op. When that is clearly not the case.

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by roger the rabbit

That I think is just your opinion, as the view count continues to rise.

Yes, you're correct. One other was heard from. Why, it's almost a flood!

I am sure you are not trying to speak for everybody.

Certainly not. Just for those of us tired of the repeated complaints.

I also wonder why some posters seem intent on turning the blame on to the op. When that is clearly not the case.

Odd, but I don't really see people trying to blame anyone. Blame connotes something intentionally done improperly. I don't see anyone intentionally trying to cause problems. I do see the Retailer trying to solve problems with the solutions available to him, which to me, denotes good customer service. I see the OP not satisfied with those solutions, and so calling that poor customer service. I see others, including myself, saying that they have been happy with B&H's customer service. I haven't seen a rash of people saying they have been unhappy in their dealings with the company. I don't see anyone blaming the OP. YMMV.

Stitchawl

[Fbone]

One last thing I will say even though it's unsolicited

columbus- If you continue to purchase goods in multiple currencies, you may want to consider using a credit card with no or low transaction fees.

Halifax Clarity Mastercard
Post Office Mastercard
Nationwide Visa (now 1% used to be 0%)

[John F]

Originally Posted by Fbone

One last thing I will say even though it's unsolicited

columbus- If you continue to purchase goods in multiple currencies, you may want to consider using a credit card with no or low transaction fees.

Halifax Clarity Mastercard
Post Office Mastercard
Nationwide Visa (now 1% used to be 0%)

Makes sense, especially if your going to be dealing with companies like B&H.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

I would say your situation sucks...

Well! you got that point right.

All of this has come about by bad practice by either B&H Photo or their card services provider. Not me or my card provider. I've said I fully appreciate the need to prevent fraud, after all it ends up costing us all through higher prices. What should not happen though is that an innocent customer is faced with totally avoidable fees and charges through a merchants thoughtless and bad practices.

Anybody still in doubt about the true facts of the case here should read the first post to cancel out any attempts at misdirection.
This post also summarises it neatly. and I thank the poster for that.

Originally Posted by brecklundin

If you can't work a deal maybe if it is OK with Harry, I'll step up and PayPal you the $25 in cash and you send me the card...hehehehe....but dang it you pay the postage!! Just trying to lighten things up is all but am serious too. Hope it all works for you.

I've no intention to sell the card, it has no value to me for the reasons stated earlier. When I see a refund of the fees and charges from B&H on my Visa account I will return the card to them. But I sure as hell ain't going to waste any further money on doing so till then.


Well Harry, I guess this post of yours is the bottom line - it seems my instincts were right after all.

Originally Posted by bandhphoto

Woe unto ye of little faith. I appreciate you're upset but don't you think I deserve the benefit of the doubt until I actually blow you off?
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[Angst]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I have a feeling that it's reached the point where very few are even listening. It's over and done with. I'm sorry that you had problems with them. You and a few others won't do business with them any longer. I, and a many others will continue to do business with them. Life goes on.


Stitchawl

[bandhphoto]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

B&H Customer Service immediately came into the situation and tried, within its powers, to satisfy the customer. In this case, it wasn't able to satisfy. That doesn't mean it didn't do all that it was able to do. It means it was unable to satisfy. Customer Service tried to help.

Thank you. I appreciate this perspective.

Originally Posted by columbus

I'm assuming you are yet another B&H employee posting here without declaring their interest. I've counted at least five so far.

You are mistaken. I am the only B&H employee posting in this forum in any capacity.

B&H ...subsequently decided to apply a new T&C not in force at the time of order and withdrew the acceptance, refunding the charge instead of correctly cancelling it.

The policy was not new when it was applied to your transaction. I readily concede it was not included in our FAQ for international customers. I have asked our web team to take steps to rectify this and I have asked our our fraud prevention and International Business Improvement teams to revisit the need for the policy in light of comments made here.

I'm as likely to send them money by wire transfer ...

And yet we receive orders with wire transfer payments and fulfill them uneventfully every week.

Originally Posted by Fbone

I will repeat myself and say that I, from the beginning, said B&H erred and possibly violated Federal postal regulations by charging your card in full on an non-shippable preorder item.

You are mistaken. It is not a violation of our merchant agreements nor a violation of any regulation, postal or UCC, for us to charge a customer's credit card when the order is submitted.

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I'm quite sure Henry Posner is the ONLY B&H employee posting here. The rest of us are just satisfied customers. There are enough of us to have kept B&H in business for many years, and make it the number one retailer in its field.

Of course, I will grant that it's possible that one requirement for working at B&H is to sign up and be active for years in many different forums JUST IN CASE it's necessary to support Henry Posner once every few years if a problem arises.

I too am quite sure Henry Posner is the ONLY B&H employee posting here. It is NOT a requirement for employment here for any employee to join or read or otherwise participate in any forum. In fact it is company policy that only employees specifically authorized to do so may participate in any online forum, blog etc. as a B&H employee per se.

Originally Posted by columbus

Instead of the flag waving gift voucher exercise costing them just $0.98c, when they new all along that it was worthless.

I appreciate your dissatisfaction but the gift card was, as I said, a gesture "...of reconciliation..." It was not "flag waving." I am averse to "flag waving."

@brecklundin -- Thank you. Yours was a timely and informative post and I will only add one thing. In the USA at least, there is a vast difference between card-present and card-absent transactions. In the latter the burden of proof for any claim of fraud or misuse or other chicanery rests almost entirely with the retailer. This places an additional burden on the retailer over and above the retailer's efforts to deter credit card fraud and identity theft. As banks make more and more outlandish promises of security to current and prospective card holders they make more and more demands on retailers to ensure this security. This is particularly true for so-called card-absent transaction including mail/phone/web purchases. Stores which don't exercise safe, prudent, & effective security measures are simply gambling they won't become the unwitting vehicle by which some clever pirate abuses YOUR accounts.

While I understand that it's our job to make your shopping experience as painless and efficient as possible, part of that process is ensuring we don't unwittingly allow you to become victimized through our carelessness or nonfeasance.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[bandhphoto]

I am happy to report that after reviewing this with the manager of our customer service department we are issuing a $25.00 refund to "columbus" and will cancel the gift card he advises he cannot use.

While this does NOT mean we have revised the policy it does mean:
1) The policy is, as promised, under review, and
2) This should, we hope mollify "columbus" and render him whole.


Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[astra]

Originally Posted by bandhphoto

I am happy to report that after reviewing this with the manager of our customer service department we are issuing a $25.00 refund to "columbus" and will cancel the gift card he advises he cannot use.

Well done!
You have done the right thing.

[columbus]

Originally Posted by bandhphoto

I am happy to report that after reviewing this with the manager of our customer service department we are issuing a $25.00 refund to "columbus" and will cancel the gift card he advises he cannot use.

While this does NOT mean we have revised the policy it does mean:
1) The policy is, as promised, under review, and
2) This should, we hope mollify "columbus" and render him whole.


Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

Well, finally!!

As and when I see the confirmed funds from you on my card statement I will post here to confirm the fact.

[bandhphoto]

Originally Posted by columbus

Well, finally!!
As and when I see the confirmed funds from you on my card statement I will post here to confirm the fact.

You're welcome. :-)

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

[columbus]

Originally Posted by bandhphoto

You're welcome. :-)

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

Not holding my breath here!!

[columbus]

My Visa account today is showing a provisional entry from B&H Photo Video for a refund of $25, dated 14th October, as awaiting confirmation. Hopefully this will become confirmed and put an end to this most unfortunate experience.

Had they, as in all honesty they should have, made the refund in the first place, this thread and the bad feeling it has undoubtedly created would never have happened.

[astra]

Originally Posted by columbus

My Visa account today is showing a provisional entry from B&H Photo Video for a refund of $25, dated 14th October, as awaiting confirmation. Hopefully this will become confirmed and put an end to this most unfortunate experience.

Had they, as in all honesty they should have, made the refund in the first place, this thread and the bad feeling it has undoubtedly created would never have happened.

I hope everybody learned from this unfortunate event.