IF you could add one function to your Kindle...

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by mattbiernat

how about a logical argument against such idea rather than an obscure statement.

My obscure statement was trying to make the point that sometimes you just want something to do its job efficiently, ergonomically, simply, straightforwardly - not to be complicated with other things that it could do. It seems to me that there's a good argument for a reader being a reader - doing that one job well, hiding the fact that it's built with a general-purpose computer under the covers, and doing its best to pretend to be a book. (A magic book with a shop in it etc. - but still a book).

That's not to say that you might want a general purpose tablet instead - even one with an eInk screen - but simply to say that there is a place for a reader that is just a reader.

So, I have some sympathy with the view that complicating the Kindle with lots of other apps would be a bad thing. There have already been posts about the two word games (i) draining battery and (ii) leading to the system hanging. I'd rather have them focus on better book rendering - better typography, improved sorting/searching/management of your library, etc.

[xmiyux]

I want to be able to buy things other than ebooks from Amazon and have them shipped wherever (basically just give access to all of Amazon rather than simply the ebook store).

[mattbiernat]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

My obscure statement was trying to make the point that sometimes you just want something to do its job efficiently, ergonomically, simply, straightforwardly - not to be complicated with other things that it could do. It seems to me that there's a good argument for a reader being a reader - doing that one job well, hiding the fact that it's built with a general-purpose computer under the covers, and doing its best to pretend to be a book. (A magic book with a shop in it etc. - but still a book).

That's not to say that you might want a general purpose tablet instead - even one with an eInk screen - but simply to say that there is a place for a reader that is just a reader.

So, I have some sympathy with the view that complicating the Kindle with lots of other apps would be a bad thing. There have already been posts about the two word games (i) draining battery and (ii) leading to the system hanging. I'd rather have them focus on better book rendering - better typography, improved sorting/searching/management of your library, etc.

but you don't have to download any apps if you don't want to. you can keep your kindle as it is...that's how simple it gets. why deprive other people from making this product more usable to them.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by mattbiernat

but you don't have to download any apps if you don't want to. you can keep your kindle as it is...that's how simple it gets. why deprive other people from making this product more usable to them.

I don't think that it's that simple. Once you introduce apps you need to worry about backing up their data, for example. All I'm saying is that you can build a more reliable, easier to use device if you keep it simple. Adding functions tends to add complexity and reduce reliability.

I'm not saying that adding such functions would be wrong, necessarily, but rather that there is a price to be paid, and they might reasonably choose not to. My view is that Bezos is right in saying that he wants to make no compromises in making Kindle a good reader.

[mattbiernat]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I don't think that it's that simple. Once you introduce apps you need to worry about backing up their data, for example.

data is data it doesn't matter if it is a book or an application therefore apps could be dealt with the same way your books are dealt with. i don't see a problem with that.

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

Adding functions tends to add complexity and reduce reliability.

again, i don't think you read my last couple of posts that i have been emphasizing that no application is required by you to download. keep everything optional and brute simple

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

but rather that there is a price to be paid, and they might reasonably choose not to.

again, you don't need to buy an app that costs money. i believe there will be lots of apps that will be for free and lots that you will have to pay for. but why are you worried about paying for apps. you obviously don't want any....

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by mattbiernat

data is data it doesn't matter if it is a book or an application therefore apps could be dealt with the same way your books are dealt with. i don't see a problem with that.

Their existing scheme for books includes a guarantee that you can delete locally and restore books at any time. They may well not want to guarantee the same for arbitrary user generated data (they don't for side-loaded books), but they might want some back-up capability. It's a different category of data, so it introduces more complexity.

again, i don't think you read my last couple of posts that i have been emphasizing that no application is required by you to download. keep everything optional and brute simple

I read your posts. Just being able to support applications - even if I don't use them - adds complexity. For example, when troubleshooting the device, it is more complex if the device offers more options (because it can be in more states). If you lock the device down so that it does one thing well, it's easier to test, fix bugs, troubleshoot etc.

again, you don't need to buy an app that costs money. i believe there will be lots of apps that will be for free and lots that you will have to pay for. but why are you worried about paying for apps. you obviously don't want any....

When I said that there was a price to pay, I didn't mean money. I meant that there are engineering trade-offs in the design of any device, and that you don't get anything for free (in terms of it having no impact). For example, if Amazon get a support call and they're trying to help you fix the problem, it's easier for them if they can be sure that it isn't caused by a rogue application.

I'm not worried about paying for apps, and you have no idea about whether I want any. All I've been saying is that there is a benefit in having a single purpose, dedicated device that performs a single function well.

[captkjaneway]

What he said!

I can see the functionality of a clock for example, but would I want a alarm clock? I can see the benefits of being able to view documents, but would I want to be able to edit them? Personally no.

Maybe I'm a bit odd as all I want is a good, solid ereader with great 'reading' functionality, easy to use, a great screen and long battery life so the only things I would want to add would be to enhance my reading experience.

But if you want an alarm clock that plays the national Anthem at hourly interviews, whilst showing a gif of your National flag, whilst you complete your accounting spreadsheet, whilst listening to your favourite tunes, whilst checking your emails and viewing your photos then who am I to argue........I just want to read.

[JeremyR]

I think it depends on whether or not the added functionality is built into the OS/firmware, or if it's done by running something else.

Windows is a great example. Okay, I guess it never really ran great, but spec-wise, Win 95 ran on pretty minimal hardware.

But then they built more and more stuff into windows. Not as programs you run separately, but stuff loaded automatically or tied into it. And so today, in order to run the latest version of Windows, you need a super-computer, at least by 1995 standards. And yet, it's really not any better...

I mean, if you play PC games, you'll generally see that the latest version of windows requires about a 1 (or double) the amount of ram you had for the previous version of windows. For the same performance.

(Okay, sure, later MS clouded the issue by only releasing newer versions of DirectX in later versions of windows. But that's just to sell newer versions of Windows).

Anyway, my point is, if they just have applications you can download that run as programs, then the Kindle likely won't be adversely affected. But if they add more and more features built into the Kindle, then it's possible the firmware will suffer. Or even just adding more frills to features.

For instance, Searching in Windows XP vs 95. They added an animated dog. Whee. But that animated dog now makes it take longer to do a search, because it has to load the animations of the dog (and animate the dog while searching).

Editing a document/book might be a case of that. No animated dog, but probably extra functions that would eat up memory and CPU and thus make the reader slightly less responsive. Maybe not noticeable, but maybe it would be slightly.

On the other hand, if they had a separate editing program outside the reader, then the reader wouldn't be affected.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

On the other hand, if they had a separate editing program outside the reader, then the reader wouldn't be affected.

It is affected, because the way in which people use the device changes. For example, lets say that the application has a memory leak, it could cause the reader to fail in a way which would not happen without the application having run. Adding this kind of thing introduces all kinds of issues that need dealing with, and although they are not insurmountable, they do have a cost (i.e. an impact). With the memory leak example, people might blame the reader software for a problem that would not have happened without the other applications being used. So there are benefits in limiting a device to performing one function (or one set of functions) well.

[TheKindleWorm]

I would like colour e-ink at some point, mainly because I read a lot of recipe books which would benefit from this. I also make my own documents with photos - journals of our holidays etc

But I only want a colour e-ink screen if it doesn't mess with the readability otherwise forget it because readability is much more important. And cost would be a factor too.

[mattbiernat]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

It is affected, because the way in which people use the device changes. For example, lets say that the application has a memory leak, it could cause the reader to fail in a way which would not happen without the application having run. Adding this kind of thing introduces all kinds of issues that need dealing with, and although they are not insurmountable, they do have a cost (i.e. an impact). With the memory leak example, people might blame the reader software for a problem that would not have happened without the other applications being used. So there are benefits in limiting a device to performing one function (or one set of functions) well.

again, people who don't want to take such risk don't have to download anything. how many times do i have to repeat that downloading applications is optional. i don't understand in which part of the word OPTIONAL am i not being clear. if people blame kindle for their stupidity then there is nothing that I can do. how about I drop my device into a bathtub and blame kindle about it? exactly same thing. your argument against introducing applications because they might be faulty simply doesn't hold. sorry. im finished discussion this subject here because you don't seem to understand the definition of the word optional and you simply argue in circles. good luck with your e-reader.

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by mattbiernat

again, people who don't want to take such risk don't have to download anything. how many times do i have to repeat that downloading applications is optional. i don't understand in which part of the word OPTIONAL am i not being clear. if people blame kindle for their stupidity then there is nothing that I can do. how about I drop my device into a bathtub and blame kindle about it? exactly same thing. your argument against introducing applications because they might be faulty simply doesn't hold. sorry. im finished discussion this subject here because you don't seem to understand the definition of the word optional and you simply argue in circles. good luck with your e-reader.

Perhaps I'm not being clear. I understand perfectly well that you are proposing that applications are made available as an option. My point is that in offering such applications, there are necessary changes - for example in testing, in support, in protecting the main (reader) function against rogue applications - that at best divert attention away from improving the reader as a reader, and at worst could impact upon it adversely.

If they made applications available, people would try them out (I'll be trying out the browser, for example) - but if this causes problems for the reader, they might see more harm than good from providing them. So, I think that they are right to focus on the reader function.

This is not a circular argument, nor one that relies on applications being mandatory.

[dcptcons4evr]

is the kindle interface open source?

[NormHart]

Originally Posted by 6charlong

Interestingly in this whole long thread I don't see people longing for color screens. You know that is going to be the next big thing. We're going to be told soon that color screens are what everyone needs in an eBook reader.

What do you say, color screens anyone?

No thanks. Most of the books I read are not illustrated, those that are illustrated are mostly in gray scale.

About the only reason I can come up with for color is the cover art and, with the Kindle, I rarely see the cover.

[Kumabjorn]

I read a book containing B/W photos. Even with the enlargement the pictures were not really sharp enough to be viewed clearly. If I would buy an electronic cook book I would assume it would be a much better experience on an iPad, including videos of how to perform certain procedures. But I understand that some people read Manga on the Kindle, so what do I know.