Apple removing links to Consumer Reports study from forums

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Sonist

This would be news to most courts in the US.

Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech.

Apple != Congress

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

IMO, when it happens, it is more likely that the courts would rule against Apple, based on other "public forum" precedents.

What other "public forum" precendents?

IMO, it's pretty clear. Apple owns the forum, so they get to make the rules. It's not a "free speech" issue.

[malligator]

Originally Posted by =X=

Okay I give up what are you trying to say? You asked what jobs said to refute CRs finding and I said nothing. The link you post does not counter CR report either.


The real issue isn't about attenuation, every device has issues in one form or another.

The issue for me is lack of respect, honesty, and integrity to their customers and the public.

In this situation Apple failed on all accounts.

1) People where reporting higher dropped calls and poor reception. Jobs responds by saying "no issues, your holding it wrong". This is not only a lie, but is straight out lack the respect for the customers who are facing a legit problem.
2) it takes a third party to expose the problem.
Here apple has the opportunity show integrity and make things right. Admit there is an issue and lay a path forward. What does Jobs do....
He throws everybody under a bus, continues to downplay the issue and out of 'love' for the customer gives away free bumpers that some how seem to fix the problem.


I understand most people have no issue dealing with a company that lacks respect, integrity, and honesty but I do and I would hope a few others do too.


=X=

The fact that I don't have to authenticate the software I buy from Apple shows a pretty good level of respect. Why worry so much about this stuff? Take a note from that parody song that was released on Youtube...

If you don't want an iPhone 4, don't buy one. If you bought one and don't like it, take it back.

I really is just that simple.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by kjk

Then why do Nokia, HTC, etc.. warn about the problem in their user manuals?

It's a matter of degree. The manufacturers admit that all phones have this problem, but what they are complaining about is the implication from Jobs that they all have it to the same degree that the iPhone 4 does. That is what they're disputing.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It's a matter of degree. The manufacturers admit that all phones have this problem, but what they are complaining about is the implication from Jobs that they all have it to the same degree that the iPhone 4 does. That is what they're disputing.

Fair enough, and I think Nokia struck the right tone in their response. I thought RIM's was a bit agressive

[=X=]

Originally Posted by kjk

Clint Bradford: Why are you dismissing what Apple reported last week?
Sonist: Perhaps because we have impartial tests from CR and AnandTech, which clearly show that there is an issue with attenuation.
kjk: What did Apple say last week that refuted CR and Anandtech's findings?

My point was that Apple didn't refute those findings, they validated them. They admitted that the iPhone 4 had a weak spot, and dropped bars when held a certain way. They didn't say "nothing". You also said the demonstration of other phones having the same issue was 'hand waving', and not scientific. Which is why I asked why they warn of the same issue in their user manuals.



Right, its a personal feeling about a company and their actions. Totally understandable.

It looks like you might have misunderstood my post and granted forums aren't the best way to communicate.

When you said "What did Apple say that refuted CR..." I responded by saying "Nothing.", as in they did not try to refute the finding. What I was saying is they provided no evidence nor made any statement to invalidated CR finding.

I then went on to say they downplayed the issue and did a lot of hand waving. I'm sorry just showing a video of bars going up and down is not evidence that the problem exist, and is just as bad, in other phones. CR actually used the right tools to measure db and showed it's data. Apple just showed a video and called it good.


BTW nobody is disputing attenuation exist, they are just stating it is not as bad as iPhone4.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by kjk

Fair enough, and I think Nokia struck the right tone in their response. I thought RIM's was a bit agressive

It was hilarious! RIM responded too quick for them to respond with a cool head. I think RIM was taken off guard by Apple.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by malligator

The fact that I don't have to authenticate the software I buy from Apple shows a pretty good level of respect. Why worry so much about this stuff? Take a note from that parody song that was released on Youtube...

If you don't want an iPhone 4, don't buy one. If you bought one and don't like it, take it back.

I really is just that simple.

Really, because I'm pretty sure they require a name and credit card number before you can actually start downloading from the store.

You also need a credit card to buy an iPod/iPhone/iPad or else register at the store before you can buy one of these devices.
=X=

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by =X=

RIM responded too quick for them to respond with a cool head.

They were PO'd, and probably with good reason.

[captcrouton]

Testing the boundaries of consumer loyalty. All of this is just a symptom of the deeper problem with Apple. Arrogance.

Arrogance is the path to the dark side. Arrogance leads to laziness. Laziness leads to mediocrity. Mediocrity leads to suffering.

It's good when these things come up. Keeps Apple on its toes, and if they don't step it up, new companies emerge. Aye, new tech companies are always emerging.

[malligator]

Originally Posted by =X=

Really, because I'm pretty sure they require a name and credit card number before you can actually start downloading from the store.

You also need a credit card to buy an iPod/iPhone/iPad or else register at the store before you can buy one of these devices.
=X=

Okay. I'm talking about computers. Apple is more than iDevices. I understand you dislike Apple. That's your perogative. I really don't think you can attack their integrity and respect, though, after years of excellent products and stewardship of the company owned by stockholders just because of one glitch in one product.

[malligator]

Originally Posted by captcrouton

Testing the boundaries of consumer loyalty. All of this is just a symptom of the deeper problem with Apple. Arrogance.

Arrogance is the path to the dark side. Arrogance leads to laziness. Laziness leads to mediocrity. Mediocrity leads to suffering.

It's good when these things come up. Keeps Apple on its toes, and if they don't step it up, new companies emerge. Aye, new tech companies are always emerging.

I'm still curious as to how a company of thousands can be 'arrogant'. They make excellent products, have a stellar balance sheet, and add a lot of innovation to the electonics industry. I'm sure there are arrogant people on the payroll, but how can a company be arrogant?

[=X=]

Originally Posted by malligator

Okay. I'm talking about computers. Apple is more than iDevices. I understand you dislike Apple. That's your perogative. I really don't think you can attack their integrity and respect, though, after years of excellent products and stewardship of the company owned by stockholders just because of one glitch in one product.

I never said I didn't like Apple what and I never criticized apple for a faulty product. My criticism was and has been, if you read my post here , how they handled the situation.

Every manufacture is going to release a defective product at some point in the game it's understandable just make it right when it happens and move on.

But never under any curmumstance lose ones integrity, honesty, and respect. And in my eyes apple did just that.

[captcrouton]

Originally Posted by malligator

I'm still curious as to how a company of thousands can be 'arrogant'. They make excellent products, have a stellar balance sheet, and add a lot of innovation to the electonics industry. I'm sure there are arrogant people on the payroll, but how can a company be arrogant?

Fair question. I think a company takes on a personality characteristic when a significant amount of its population present that trait. Over time, companies can develop a culture that attracts certain personalities. That could be shaped by their advertising, performance policies, hiring emphasis.

I've been to friendly churches, wild colleges, helpful pharmacies, etc. You couldn't say that the building was friendly, or even that every single person who worked there was friendly. But there was a certain atmosphere...

I hope you don't think I'm implying that every Apple employee is arrogant. But I think it's normal to see human traits in a human run organization, especially when they're run by dominant personalities. I'm not the only one who does it. Steve Jobs said that Adobe was lazy when explaining why his gizmos wouldn't/couldn't run Flash.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It's a matter of degree. The manufacturers admit that all phones have this problem, but what they are complaining about is the implication from Jobs that they all have it to the same degree that the iPhone 4 does. That is what they're disputing.

Ditto.
And no such note on the tattoo's manual. There is one on te archos 5 (wi-fi antenna is there, avoid holding it there.) Though the way it is, you rarely hold it that way.

[Talldog]

Originally Posted by malligator

I'm still curious as to how a company of thousands can be 'arrogant'. They make excellent products, have a stellar balance sheet, and add a lot of innovation to the electonics industry. I'm sure there are arrogant people on the payroll, but how can a company be arrogant?

No company is more identified with its CEO than Apple, and Steve Jobs is arrogant.