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Old 06-24-2010, 12:00 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by GeoffC View Post
In my scenario I am assuming that after 2 years, I would sell ... capital gain losses are (as far as I understand it in the UK) not tax deductible, for me as an individual.
They are, however, offsettable against other capitals gains you may have made in the same year. Eg, if, in the same year that you were so unfortunate as to lose £5m on your Picasso, you were to make £6m profit from sales of assets in your property empire, you'd only pay capital gains tax on £1 (the £6m profit less the £5m loss).
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:11 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
They are, however, offsettable against other capitals gains you may have made in the same year. Eg, if, in the same year that you were so unfortunate as to lose £5m on your Picasso, you were to make £6m profit from sales of assets in your property empire, you'd only pay capital gains tax on £1 (the £6m profit less the £5m loss).

yes, I gradually came to that conclusion, too - but the loss can only be put against a gain - if you only had a loss then tough !!!! - even despite the ability to "carry-forward" .... (oh for £5m in the first place )
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by GeoffC View Post
:stickshandup: as one of the poor and the disabled ....
I've had a pretty good recession so far, and I'm not really in any hurry for it to end, it just annoys me when they pick on the most vulnerable members of society. The last time the Conservatives got in they killed off entire communities through their short sighted greed and self serving policies.
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:53 PM   #79
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No party politics here, please.

Thank you.
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Old 06-24-2010, 06:25 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by J. Strnad View Post
I believe the rationale for taxing ebooks and not print books is that print books can be hurled at politicians, thus giving them a social value that ebooks lack.

I could be wrong.
You could hurl your Kobo at them!
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:11 PM   #81
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The wealthy have many more ways to avoid income taxation than wage-earners do, so it isn't as "fair" in real life as it sounds in practice.

Also, an income tax must be graduated because a tax rate of, say, 10% hits lower income people harder, possibly forcing them to cut back on essentials, whereas wealthy people can absorb a 10% hit without giving up any "first fruits." So, their rate needs to be higher.

A sales tax can be fairer if you exempt things like food and medicine (as California does with its state sales tax). If you cook at home, you pay no tax on that food; if you eat out at a cheap joint, you pay some tax; if you eat at a fancy restaurant, you pay a lot of tax. If you buy clothes at a yard sale, you pay no sales tax; if you buy a $20 shirt at Sears, you pay some tax; if you buy a $700 shirt on Rodeo Road in Beverly Hills, you pay a lot of tax.

However one taxes them, print books and ebooks should be taxed alike.
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Strnad View Post
The wealthy have many more ways to avoid income taxation than wage-earners do, so it isn't as "fair" in real life as it sounds in practice.

Also, an income tax must be graduated because a tax rate of, say, 10% hits lower income people harder, possibly forcing them to cut back on essentials, whereas wealthy people can absorb a 10% hit without giving up any "first fruits." So, their rate needs to be higher.
The wealthy may have more ways to avoid income taxation, but if they were taxed at a fair rate they wouldn't have needed to find said ways in order to keep the money they earned.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:10 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Strnad View Post
... If you cook at home, you pay no tax on that food; if you eat out at a cheap joint, you pay some tax; if you eat at a fancy restaurant, you pay a lot of tax. If you buy clothes at a yard sale, you pay no sales tax; if you buy a $20 shirt at Sears, you pay some tax; if you buy a $700 shirt on Rodeo Road in Beverly Hills, you pay a lot of tax.

However one taxes them, print books and ebooks should be taxed alike.
Using your examples you could say that they should not. Is an eBook 'fancier' than a paper one? That can be debated forever, I think, but the people who claim that it is fancier could therefore claim a higher tax is justified.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:56 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Strnad View Post
The wealthy have many more ways to avoid income taxation than wage-earners do, so it isn't as "fair" in real life as it sounds in practice.
It isn't just that that causes the problem. The poor are much more likely to spend any spare money they might have on local goods and services, so if you take money away from them the local economy will suffer.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:59 AM   #85
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The wealthy may have more ways to avoid income taxation, but if they were taxed at a fair rate they wouldn't have needed to find said ways in order to keep the money they earned.
Eh? So the non-wealthy does not have this right to keep the money they earn then unless you defined fair in a strange way.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:12 AM   #86
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Eh? So the non-wealthy does not have this right to keep the money they earn then unless you defined fair in a strange way.
If I understand correctly, he says that there is very high tax if you earn more than a certain figure.
For example:
If you eran 15K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 3K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 30%, so you pay 12K
If you earn 51K pa., the tax is 40%, so you pay 20K
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 50%, so you pay 50K

However, if the percentage was the same 20% for everybody, then people who earn would not have to find ways to hide their income.

It would look like that:
If you eran 15K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 3K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 8K
If you earn 51K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 10K
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 20K

Thus people who earn more would not be discriminated.
Although, I belong to the first line in the list, I think it is unfair on people who earn more. There is a point when you don't want to earn more, because there is no point, the tax man will get everything.

Then again...better them than us...
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:29 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra View Post
If I understand correctly, he says that there is very high tax if you earn more than a certain figure.
For example:
If you eran 15K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 3K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 30%, so you pay 12K
If you earn 51K pa., the tax is 40%, so you pay 20K
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 50%, so you pay 50K

However, if the percentage was the same 20% for everybody, then people who earn would not have to find ways to hide their income.

It would look like that:
If you eran 15K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 3K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 8K
If you earn 51K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 10K
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 20K

Thus people who earn more would not be discriminated.
Although, I belong to the first line in the list, I think it is unfair on people who earn more. There is a point when you don't want to earn more, because there is no point, the tax man will get everything.

Then again...better them than us...
I don't think it quite works like that.

There are thresholds, so you only pay the higher rate tax on any earnings above that threshold, e.g.

If you earn 15K pa., the tax is 10%, so you pay 1.5K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 10% on the first 20k and 15% on the rest so you pay 5k
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 10% on the first 20k and 15% on the next 20k and 40% on the rest so you pay 29k

These aren't the actual thresholds in use in the UK, I think that they are 22%, 40% and 50% (40% kicks in at 40k and 50% at 100k I think, but don't quote me on it). This means that you don't get the situation where it's better to be paid 99k rather than 100k for example.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:33 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra View Post
If I understand correctly, he says that there is very high tax if you earn more than a certain figure.
For example:
If you eran 15K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 3K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 30%, so you pay 12K
If you earn 51K pa., the tax is 40%, so you pay 20K
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 50%, so you pay 50K
I think is most countries tiered tax rates only apply to income in that tier, so actually someone earning 100K wouldn't be paying 50K in tax, but less than that.

Quote:
However, if the percentage was the same 20% for everybody, then people who earn would not have to find ways to hide their income.

It would look like that:
If you eran 15K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 3K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 8K
If you earn 51K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 10K
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 20%, so you pay 20K
On your figures, ignoring tiered tax rates, total tax income here across these four people is 41K vs 85K in the first set of figures. Therefore everyone's tax rates would have to be doubled to have the same amount collected. So this becomes more like:

If you eran 15K pa., the tax is 40%, so you pay 6K
If you earn 40K pa., the tax is 40%, so you pay 16K
If you earn 51K pa., the tax is 40%, so you pay 20K
If you earn 100K pa., the tax is 40%, so you pay 40K

Still sound fair?
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:39 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by ATimson View Post
The wealthy may have more ways to avoid income taxation, but if they were taxed at a fair rate they wouldn't have needed to find said ways in order to keep the money they earned.
Course, that's presuming that many amongst the wealthy will ever feel that they are taxed fairly.

Lots of them living on the Channel Islands, I hear...
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:12 PM   #90
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Guys, I am sorry if I confused you.
I have given random numbers. I don't know the actual ones.
I just wanted to show the situation.

Quote:
Still sound fair?
As much unfair for low income as it is unfair to apply higher percentage for 100K than for 15K.
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