Authors pushing books - Page 6

Worldwalker · 06-06-2010, 01:47 PM

I should mention the "Introduce Yourself" board as yet another one that's starting to collect ads for books.

Wetdogeared · 06-06-2010, 03:08 PM

Is there any standard for what a thumbnail size should be in a sig? Some I've seen are twice as big as others.

HarryT · 06-06-2010, 04:17 PM

We don't have any hard and fast rules, but we require a signature to be "discreet". As a guideline, I'd suggest that graphics in a sig should be no more than the height of, say, 4 lines of normal text, and that the entire sig no more than 6 lines.

Worldwalker · 06-06-2010, 05:11 PM

It could be worse. Some of the gaming forums I've been on, you get about 5 posts to the page, with about 3 lines to the post ... because all the rest are the freaking ginormous sigs bragging about all of someone's WoW characters and their Xbox Live stats and God only knows what else. (all of which matters, of course, to them and them only)

jaxx6166 · 06-06-2010, 08:18 PM

I love jinlo and worldwalker's ideas. They're amazingly perfect. Which means someone's going to eff it up. No matter what happens. People are just ignorant

But, I think if it's clear then maybe the spam will go away. I'm also for a boycot. I may even start just posting "don't feed the trolls.." on all the spambots

It could be worse though. This could be the IGN boards, or even my local newspaper. "Hello friend. I like your website. Purhaps youd like very mcuh to check my page out. we have great deals on variety of product. Just click here."

Maybe we just need more mods?

Let each mod police their own subforums..do yall do that now?

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-06-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxx6166

But, I think if it's clear then maybe the spam will go away.

And that, of course, is the problem: If you put up a new subforum, the old forums will continue to get the same posts they get now... plus they'll be added to the new forum. Because spammers aren't going to pay attention to MR's largely voluntary guidelines... they'll spam. That's what they do.

The only thing that will keep the other posts out will be manual monitoring and indiscriminate post removal on the part of the mods... and no one wants to have to do that.

zelda_pinwheel · 06-06-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

The only thing that will keep the other posts out will be manual monitoring and indiscriminate post removal on the part of the mods... and no one wants to have to do that.

we already do that, you know.

i think that this idea of a forum specifically for promos is a very interesting idea. it would provide a truly appropriate place for such posts, whose number will only increase as our membership grows (and that is a good thing). the people who are posting in good faith, will see that forum, understand that it is the right place, and post there directly. the people who are sincerely confused will get an explanation from a helpful and friendly member, as happens already on any subject. and the ones who abuse or the true impenitent spammers will get a warning and if necessary be banned, as is already the case. i really don't see why it should have any incidence on actual spam one way or another.

Worldwalker · 06-06-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

And that, of course, is the problem: If you put up a new subforum, the old forums will continue to get the same posts they get now... plus they'll be added to the new forum. Because spammers aren't going to pay attention to MR's largely voluntary guidelines... they'll spam. That's what they do.

We're looking at two different issues, I think. The true spammers (that video editing software company, for instance) will spam no matter what we do. As you say, that's what they do. The only way to stop them is various administrative measures (account verification, even IP filtering if it comes to that) and zealous mods jumping on their posts. That's a problem on any forum, anywhere, on any topic, and forum admins entertain themselves by devising suitably vile punishments in the afterlife for the people who do it.

But we also have the issue of people who are not spammers -- at least, not in the same sense. True, some of them may just drop off book announcements here and nothing else, but even they're valuable to us. We are, after all, a bunch of people whose common interest is ebooks, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who bought an ebook reader because my pbook collection was threatening the structural stability of my floor. Those people -- for instance, the person whose post on the "Introduce Yourself" board was 98% ad for his book -- don't think they're spammers, and they don't want to be spammers (at least we hope they don't!); they just want to tell us about their new ebook.

So if they had a clearly marked board for telling us about new ebooks -- like my Book Fair idea -- I think the overwhelming majority of them would say "Oh, that's where my announcement belongs" and post accordingly. The ones who don't could be dealt with on an individual basis by the mods. It's been my experience as a mod and admin, going back to the dial-up BBS days, that the way to get users to go where you want is to pull them, not push them. That's why practically every forum has something like the Lounge. Telling people "don't post off-topic stuff on the forums" leads to constant problems, bickering, and hard feelings; telling them "post your off-topic stuff in the Lounge" gets almost all of it posted right where it belongs (YFMV). Mods, how often do you have to move something to the Lounge? Not often, right, even though it's kind of hard to find?

Quote:

The only thing that will keep the other posts out will be manual monitoring and indiscriminate post removal on the part of the mods... and no one wants to have to do that.

If they have the option, most people actually do want to be good forum citizens. Even the post-and-run authors that we never see except when they've got something to sell, they still don't want to tick us off. The DVD software guys hit every forum on the Web; they don't care if they annoy most of them, they'll still get a response from thousands of others. There are only a relative handful of places like MobileRead, though, and most people are smart enough not to get their target market really, really steamed at them -- especially since MR is large enough and ranks highly enough on Google to have a fair bit of influence on opinions. So if they have an "announce your book in the MR Book Fair" option, I think nearly all of them will take it, and the handful who don't can be educated, and their posts moved, on a case-by-case basis.

As for post removal, it would be very discriminating post removal, and that's what mods are for. *grins, ducks, and runs*

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-06-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

we already do that, you know.

Yes, well... I wouldn't call the post-removal done by MR mods to be "indiscriminate." Many other sites are a lot more ruthless, simply swinging the scythe at a moment's notice. MR mods are very careful about what they move, what they delete, and who they simply warn off... which is something we MR members appreciate!

sakura-panda · 06-08-2010, 12:17 PM

This is an interesting discussion!

I would welcome a new forum specifically for authors promoting their books, for a slightly different reason. I realize this topic was started as a request to alleviate the flood of self-promotions throughout the forum, but I have a slightly different perspective.

Recently I bought a new smartphone with a reader and it was surprisingly difficult and time consuming for me to wade through the Deals/Freebies/etc forum to find a couple of books to download to it (through Smashwords). If there had been a distinct forum for authors to advertise their books and deals, it would have been a lot easier for me to find those books and I might have picked up a few more. It was such an unpleasant experience that I have not tried it again.

On the other hand, the cryptic self-promotion threads you all have been complaining about have gone by pretty much unnoticed by me. I saw the "Any readers?" thread, but didn't read anything after the first post.

It seems from my point of view that the authors are annoying the people who can best help them get more sales and not drawing the attention of the people that make those purchases. A new forum -- or at least, a way to distinguish themselves in the old forums, such as with "new author" or "new release" tags -- could help solve both sides of the issue.

Worldwalker · 06-08-2010, 01:53 PM

Despite certain paranoia on others' part, that is actually one of the reasons I proposed the "Book Fair" forum. Most of us, even the cheapskates like me, buy ebooks. I in particular buy independently-published or small-publisher ebooks, because I will not buy from the Agency 5 or any ebook encumbered with DRM. So I want a place where I can browse through the book announcements and spot ones that appeal to me without having to dig through multiple pages in multiple sections that are shared with notices about sales on ebook readers, discussions of writing, and "Hi, I'm Fred" posts. When I have an urge to buy a book I go to the bookstore; that's as true electronically as it is physically.

Why doesn't anyone seem to believe me when I say this will be a win for everyone?

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-08-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Despite certain paranoia on others' part

What? Who you talkin' bout? Who you lookin' at? Huh? Who?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Why doesn't anyone seem to believe me when I say this will be a win for everyone?

I suppose it's because we are afraid the spammers will pollute it, just like the other forums, thereby driving potential users away, turning it into a selling ghetto, and ultimately rendering it ineffective.

So call us pessimistic.

Be that as it may, I suppose there's nothing wrong with giving it a try... we could be wrong, you know...

pshrynk · 06-08-2010, 04:58 PM

I am with WorldWalker here. One of the reasons we keep a few threads open, like the Speed Reading thread is that they are really good Spam magnets and we catch quite a few by just subscribing to them. A subforum on self-promo would act as a similar magnet, I feel.

Plus, I really like the idea of having a place to attract authors who want some publicity and may end up as productive members.

BearMountainBooks · 06-08-2010, 05:50 PM

Dare I even post here??

Sure! I find most people on MR to be very reasonable and supportive.

If there are certain authors out of hand...I think they should be reported to the mods so that a "cease" letter can be mailed. Because really...there are plenty of places for me to post an "ad" if I want to. In fact, reading through this thread, it appears I've missed two of them, at least.

Maybe just tighten the rules on the existing forums/threads. Seriously. There are plenty of places for us authors to promote if we want. A fourth thread area...probably won't solve the problem.

Maria

Elfwreck · 06-08-2010, 06:43 PM

I don't think the problem is certain authors getting out of hand. I think the mods do a good job of finding & coping with those.

The problem is random drop-ins, who notice that this is An Ebook Place, and they have recently released their new ebook for sale, so they want to post a notice about it. Sometimes, they seem to think this should inspire hundreds of readers to rush to Smashwords or Amazon to download their amazing novel; more often, they hope to get one or two sales, and maybe a bit of commentary.

And these aren't bad posts, per se, it's just troublesome to have them scattered all over the forums, cluttering up the place so it's hard to find the one-week-20%-off-at-bookstore announcements*, and the "best mystery ebooks published in the last 6 years" discussions.

I'd like a forum for "advertise your ebook HERE," which won't stop determined spammers, but should nicely collect the *polite* drop-by authors in one place. After that, when someone's looking for a new author to try out, s/he can check out that forum instead of skipping around all over Mobileread trying to remember the name of that fantasy epic involving airships that showed up a few days ago.

As ebooks grow, and as self-published ebooks get more trendy & popular, I expect we'll see a lot more first-time posters advertising their books. I'd like to give them an obvious place to do so.

If we're getting *really* ambitious, we can talk about a standard preferred format for the posts. (Title of "New Ebook: Title, at [amazon/smashwords/whatever]," content to contain link, author name, & a description.) Not that I'd expect them all to use it, or to punish the ones who don't, but some of them *will* check to see if there's a protocol, and try to follow it.

*All examples are hypothetical.

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06-06-2010, 01:47 PM	#76
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	I should mention the "Introduce Yourself" board as yet another one that's starting to collect ads for books.

06-06-2010, 03:08 PM	#77
Wetdogeared Storm Surge'n Posts: 5,780 Karma: 8213195 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Polar Vortex Device: S0ny PRS-300/350/505/700/T1	Is there any standard for what a thumbnail size should be in a sig? Some I've seen are twice as big as others.

06-06-2010, 04:17 PM	#78
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	We don't have any hard and fast rules, but we require a signature to be "discreet". As a guideline, I'd suggest that graphics in a sig should be no more than the height of, say, 4 lines of normal text, and that the entire sig no more than 6 lines.

06-06-2010, 05:11 PM	#79
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	It could be worse. Some of the gaming forums I've been on, you get about 5 posts to the page, with about 3 lines to the post ... because all the rest are the freaking ginormous sigs bragging about all of someone's WoW characters and their Xbox Live stats and God only knows what else. (all of which matters, of course, to them and them only)

06-06-2010, 08:18 PM	#80
jaxx6166 Wizard Posts: 1,222 Karma: 769316 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eternal summer Device: 350, iPad, PW	I love jinlo and worldwalker's ideas. They're amazingly perfect. Which means someone's going to eff it up. No matter what happens. People are just ignorant But, I think if it's clear then maybe the spam will go away. I'm also for a boycot. I may even start just posting "don't feed the trolls.." on all the spambots It could be worse though. This could be the IGN boards, or even my local newspaper. "Hello friend. I like your website. Purhaps youd like very mcuh to check my page out. we have great deals on variety of product. Just click here." Maybe we just need more mods? Let each mod police their own subforums..do yall do that now?

06-08-2010, 12:17 PM	#85
sakura-panda Guru Posts: 934 Karma: 9558874 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southeast Michigan, USA Device: Kindle Oasis; 11" iPad Pro (Books, Kindle, Kobo, MapleRead SE)	This is an interesting discussion! I would welcome a new forum specifically for authors promoting their books, for a slightly different reason. I realize this topic was started as a request to alleviate the flood of self-promotions throughout the forum, but I have a slightly different perspective. Recently I bought a new smartphone with a reader and it was surprisingly difficult and time consuming for me to wade through the Deals/Freebies/etc forum to find a couple of books to download to it (through Smashwords). If there had been a distinct forum for authors to advertise their books and deals, it would have been a lot easier for me to find those books and I might have picked up a few more. It was such an unpleasant experience that I have not tried it again. On the other hand, the cryptic self-promotion threads you all have been complaining about have gone by pretty much unnoticed by me. I saw the "Any readers?" thread, but didn't read anything after the first post. It seems from my point of view that the authors are annoying the people who can best help them get more sales and not drawing the attention of the people that make those purchases. A new forum -- or at least, a way to distinguish themselves in the old forums, such as with "new author" or "new release" tags -- could help solve both sides of the issue.

06-08-2010, 01:53 PM	#86
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Despite certain paranoia on others' part, that is actually one of the reasons I proposed the "Book Fair" forum. Most of us, even the cheapskates like me, buy ebooks. I in particular buy independently-published or small-publisher ebooks, because I will not buy from the Agency 5 or any ebook encumbered with DRM. So I want a place where I can browse through the book announcements and spot ones that appeal to me without having to dig through multiple pages in multiple sections that are shared with notices about sales on ebook readers, discussions of writing, and "Hi, I'm Fred" posts. When I have an urge to buy a book I go to the bookstore; that's as true electronically as it is physically. Why doesn't anyone seem to believe me when I say this will be a win for everyone?

06-08-2010, 04:58 PM	#88
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	I am with WorldWalker here. One of the reasons we keep a few threads open, like the Speed Reading thread is that they are really good Spam magnets and we catch quite a few by just subscribing to them. A subforum on self-promo would act as a similar magnet, I feel. Plus, I really like the idea of having a place to attract authors who want some publicity and may end up as productive members.

06-08-2010, 05:50 PM	#89
BearMountainBooks Maria Schneider Posts: 3,746 Karma: 26439330 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Near Austin, Texas Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard	Dare I even post here?? Sure! I find most people on MR to be very reasonable and supportive. If there are certain authors out of hand...I think they should be reported to the mods so that a "cease" letter can be mailed. Because really...there are plenty of places for me to post an "ad" if I want to. In fact, reading through this thread, it appears I've missed two of them, at least. Maybe just tighten the rules on the existing forums/threads. Seriously. There are plenty of places for us authors to promote if we want. A fourth thread area...probably won't solve the problem. Maria

06-08-2010, 06:43 PM	#90
Elfwreck Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,187 Karma: 25133758 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)	I don't think the problem is certain authors getting out of hand. I think the mods do a good job of finding & coping with those. The problem is random drop-ins, who notice that this is An Ebook Place, and they have recently released their new ebook for sale, so they want to post a notice about it. Sometimes, they seem to think this should inspire hundreds of readers to rush to Smashwords or Amazon to download their amazing novel; more often, they hope to get one or two sales, and maybe a bit of commentary. And these aren't bad posts, per se, it's just troublesome to have them scattered all over the forums, cluttering up the place so it's hard to find the one-week-20%-off-at-bookstore announcements, and the "best mystery ebooks published in the last 6 years" discussions. I'd like a forum for "advertise your ebook HERE," which won't stop determined spammers, but should nicely collect the polite* drop-by authors in one place. After that, when someone's looking for a new author to try out, s/he can check out that forum instead of skipping around all over Mobileread trying to remember the name of that fantasy epic involving airships that showed up a few days ago. As ebooks grow, and as self-published ebooks get more trendy & popular, I expect we'll see a lot more first-time posters advertising their books. I'd like to give them an obvious place to do so. If we're getting really ambitious, we can talk about a standard preferred format for the posts. (Title of "New Ebook: Title, at [amazon/smashwords/whatever]," content to contain link, author name, & a description.) Not that I'd expect them all to use it, or to punish the ones who don't, but some of them will check to see if there's a protocol, and try to follow it. *All examples are hypothetical.

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