future-proof Fictionwise multiformat choice ?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Superlucky

I'm paying for content, period. That's not creating an aristocratic permission-culture, it's providing compensation for the time and effort it took to produce and distribute the content. Those of us who love reading (as opposed to loving books) can't grasp this obsession with what to us is essentially packaging. Yes, the packaging serves a purpose and needs to be adequate, but all the waxing poetic about the space between letters and the claim that there is no way to have a pleasant reading experience with an epub evokes nausea and eye rolls.

The thing is, Gutenberg basic plaintext versions are moderately well-formatted. They have line breaks that match the original for length, and if you put them in a normal-reading-size font, they match your years of practice in reading text. Most computers show text files in a plain sans serif font, easy to read on a 72-dpi computer screen.

That is packaging. That's *good* packaging. Want to see bad packaging? Check out today's XKCD.

I've seen a letter-sized zine published entirely in Chevalier. It was awful. Nothing like 5,000 words of content you really, really want to read written in something that makes your eyes bleed to convince you that typography is an important art.

[bspline]

Unfortunately I think typesetting won't matter, as page/cover design won't matter and neither extra content will matter.

I don't even think DRM will matter, the most widespread and most *commercially* successful format will win the war. As of now, it is unquestionably the Kindle in any of its variants (DRM, TPZ, AZW, etc).

Joe User wants ease in all of his experiences (mind you, Joe User isn't particularly stupid, just a bit lazy and kind of an "I-want-it-now-immediately-now-don't-want-to-wait-for-later") and he will dictate the winner, not us book geeks.

History, in particular recent history is full of examples of format wars that were won not by the best format, but by the most widespread and more confortable format.

Unless Amazon really botches it, and I don't think they're afraid of B&N despite the seemingly rushed decision to release WinKindle and MacKindle, they will dictate the market, and whoever is left running against it will be niche markets, like so many others such as Betamax.

[ahi]

In the meantime, I'll continue to hope that the anti-intellectualist fad does eventually pass.

- Ahi

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by bspline

I don't even think DRM will matter, the most widespread and most *commercially* successful format will win the war. As of now, it is unquestionably the Kindle in any of its variants (DRM, TPZ, AZW, etc).

In the US. In the rest of the world, it's not the leader--and I don't think opening their ebooks to international sales is going to change that, because of the geographic restrictions involved.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

In the US. In the rest of the world, it's not the leader--and I don't think opening their ebooks to international sales is going to change that, because of the geographic restrictions involved.

Agreed. Epub appears to be the winner to me what with Sony and B&N both moving to it and the stores like BooksOnBoard, etc supporting it. It's almost like everyone is lining up on the side opposite Amazon. I think/hope they will embrace epub shortly and hopefully we can rid of the silly DRM as well.

[Superlucky]

Originally Posted by ahi

In the meantime, I'll continue to hope that the anti-intellectualist fad does eventually pass.

Lack of concern for kerning is anti-intellectual? I didn't realize that typesetting (or the appreciation of typesetting) is an intellectual pursuit.

This is a curious accusation on a forum where many of the members are heavy consumers of literature. It's a poor choice of ad hominem, to say the least.

[bspline]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Agreed. Epub appears to be the winner to me what with Sony and B&N both moving to it and the stores like BooksOnBoard, etc supporting it. It's almost like everyone is lining up on the side opposite Amazon. I think/hope they will embrace epub shortly and hopefully we can rid of the silly DRM as well.

I really don't know about Europe/Asia. Here in Brazil, the very scarce e-book base we have *tend* to go with the Kindle. And geographic restrictions weren't too much of an issue, especially considering the e-book users had to buy a geographically restricted device. There are still workarounds...

I just hope B&N chooses to adapt the eReader software to handle ePub. But I won't count very much on it.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by kennyc

It's almost like everyone is lining up on the side opposite Amazon.

Of course they are. Kindle as a closed platform is a threat to everybody else.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Superlucky

Lack of concern for kerning is anti-intellectual?

Yes. When it becomes a basis for your views on bookmaking, it certainly is.

Originally Posted by Superlucky

I didn't realize that typesetting (or the appreciation of typesetting) is an intellectual pursuit.

I'm sure you didn't.

Originally Posted by Superlucky

This is a curious accusation on a forum where many of the members are heavy consumers of literature.

Don't you just LOVE "Twilight" and "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies"?!

I'm sure my above characterization is no more caricatured than your implication that Mobileread is primarily frequented by members of the literati.

Originally Posted by Superlucky

It's a poor choice of ad hominem, to say the least.

No it isn't. It's apt. APT!

Although, to avoid confusion, my initial comment was not directed solely or even fully against your specific person.

- Ahi

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Agreed. Epub appears to be the winner to me what with Sony and B&N both moving to it and the stores like BooksOnBoard, etc supporting it. It's almost like everyone is lining up on the side opposite Amazon.

Amazon has sold ebooks before... and then decided they weren't profitable enough, dropped them, and the customers who'd bought from them couldn't move their books to new computers after they updated.

There's certainly nothing in the Kindle arrangement that prevents them from doing so again. This time, it's profitable... for now. But Amazon's already shown itself as ready to abandon current customers if a new, better fad comes along. It's not implausible that, if Amazon switches to ePub, they'll do so with the Kindle 3--and K1, K2 and DX users will just no longer be able to buy ebooks from Amazon. And eventually, they'll decide they don't want to pay for the server costs for those accounts, and the browsing costs, and shut them off entirely.

That's not a prediction. Maybe it won't happen that way. But it did happen, almost exactly that way, before--and Amazon's not issuing any promises that it won't do so again.

[acidzebra]

Originally Posted by ahi

No it isn't. It's apt. APT!

I wouldn't have pegged you as the Lisa Simpson type.

Oh, wait, did I just betray my predilection for watching the Simpsons?

Right, topic. Epub will crash and burn when all sorts of types start including mutually incompatible DRM, causing frustration among consumers. Is that inflammatory and bold enough? And Amazon will feel the backlash when people move away from Kindle only to find that all their books bought from Amazon are now useless, locked in a format they no longer have access to.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by acidzebra

I wouldn't have pegged you as the Lisa Simpson type.

Oh, wait, did I just betray my predilection for watching the Simpsons?

I'm glad you did, for if I had exposed the quote's source myself I might well have been implicated as a cultural peasant in the eyes of my worthy opponent!

Originally Posted by acidzebra

Right, topic. Epub will crash and burn when all sorts of types start including mutually incompatible DRM, causing frustration among consumers. Is that inflammatory and bold enough? And Amazon will feel the backlash when people move away from Kindle only to find that all their books bought from Amazon are now useless, locked in a format they no longer have access to.

It's not M. Casanova that turned you heretical, Acidzebra. Is it?

- Ahi

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Amazon has sold ebooks before... and then decided they weren't profitable enough, dropped them, and the customers who'd bought from them couldn't move their books to new computers after they updated.

There's certainly nothing in the Kindle arrangement that prevents them from doing so again. This time, it's profitable... for now. But Amazon's already shown itself as ready to abandon current customers if a new, better fad comes along. It's not implausible that, if Amazon switches to ePub, they'll do so with the Kindle 3--and K1, K2 and DX users will just no longer be able to buy ebooks from Amazon. And eventually, they'll decide they don't want to pay for the server costs for those accounts, and the browsing costs, and shut them off entirely.

That's not a prediction. Maybe it won't happen that way. But it did happen, almost exactly that way, before--and Amazon's not issuing any promises that it won't do so again.

Excellent point.

But perhaps with a larger following they might be more inclined to play along.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ahi

I'm glad you did, for if I had exposed the quote's source myself I might well have been implicated as a cultural peasant in the eyes of my worthy opponent!

- Ahi

Ah-Ha!!



Wait, make that Ah-Ha Ahi!

[bkilian]

Originally Posted by ahi

In the meantime, I'll continue to hope that the anti-intellectualist fad does eventually pass.

- Ahi

Heh, Nice. I bet that's what the monks used to say about the damned commoners who were quite happy to read their non-illuminated and horribly typeset gutenberg bibles instead of the scribed versions that took ten years to complete.

Now I'll give you that I really don't like bad formatting in my ebooks. I'll usually fix issues when I come across them, but I really don't care if the book is in Times, Georgia, or Century. I generally prefer indented paragraphs to doublespaced paragraphs, and I'll actually change books in the form I don't like to the form I do.

As eBooks get more popular, publishers will take more time and make sure their formatting is better, but I still haven't seen you answer the question about what specific "typographical complexity" is not supported in ePub