Sony Reader vs. iRex Iliad e-book reader - Page 6

Alexander Turcic · 03-10-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luag

ow...i thought they were going to release v2 in May.

According to their faq, samples will become available in May.

luag · 03-10-2006, 09:57 AM

lol
thanks for clearing that up

CommanderROR · 03-10-2006, 10:06 AM

The question is...what are "Samples"?

Alexander Turcic · 03-10-2006, 10:10 AM

I'd say samples refer to press-release copies for previews. Of course I could also be wrong

Laurens · 03-10-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

Jinke has answered (way ahead of iRex...I've been waiting for almost a week for them to answer, Jinke replied in about 12 hours...

)

Don't expect an answer from iRex beyond a "thank you for your interest" canned response. They focus primarily on businesses, not consumers.

CCDMan · 03-10-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

From a business point of view, I wouldn't want to artificially limit my market. If using an open standard instead of a proprietary one meets the needs of my customers

You must not be in business....
Linux meets the needs of 1.4 % of the customers and to serve those they either have to:

1)Write new conversion SW which may not be worth it for a lousy 1.4 % of the market. And indeed it probably is not even that since many Linux users
also have Windows machines.

or

2) Allow direct import of standard file formats. I agree that this would be nicer it but does take some added capability within the device, which will add to the device cost. They clearly decided that this was cheaper to do in SW. It will also be more versatile as new formats can be added much more easily.

Quote:

The only reason that some companies pursue proprietary formats (like Sony and iTunes) is to lock their customers into their products.

Largely but not entirely true - if they were trying to lock customers in totally, they would not even offer conversion by SW. I agree that Sony has been pretty stupid along these lines in the past (witness beta and memory stick) - and it has cost them. Perhaps the fact that they have gone to SD on this device indicates that they have come to their senses to a degree. Time will tell. I should point out that insofar as the DRM part of the format, this may well be driven at least as much by their content providers. Unlike music and video, for books this is pretty much external to Sony.

Quote:

From a consumer point of view, proprietary is bad and competition is good. Competition ensures that I will get the most for the least money.

Sure, what is good for stockholders is bad for consumers. This is often true and only sometimes avoidable. There is a delicate balance between making a device open (which sells more devices) and closed (which sells more content). Since most companies make far more from content, it is not suprising to see manufacturers go the way they have. Why do you think printers are so cheap? The money is in the ink. This is nothing new and is called capitalism. Not great until you consider the alternatives.

doctorow · 03-10-2006, 11:14 AM

How about releasing all the specs (which they are rumored to do for the BBeB format) and to make the available tools open-source? Sure enough the Linux community would write their own tools then.

CCDMan · 03-10-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

How about releasing all the specs (which they are rumored to do for the BBeB format) and to make the available tools open-source?

Sounds good to me. I suspect even just the specs for the format would be enough. It will be interesting to see what happens once the device and content is available. I suspect there are gonna be some surprises, both good and bad.

From what I can see now, the Sony is the best option for my usage (recreational reading only). But this stuff has a way of not being what we expected, so I will reserve judgement until I see a few real world user reviews...

Take Care

Laurens · 03-10-2006, 11:32 AM

Open formats are more important than open-source, IMO.

CommanderROR · 03-10-2006, 12:47 PM

not really...open formats are cool, but open source gives all those programmers out there a chance to give us open format readers for the device, and they can
create new software whenever the formats change...and make it free as well.

Sometimes I get the feeling that the best programmers out there are freelance/hobby programmers...all those guys that install linux on strange devices like Windows PDAs, PSPs and smartphones...of course it's more or less a waste of time, but think about what those guys can do and could do to create useful software for all of us...^^

Laurens · 03-10-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

not really...open formats are cool, but open source gives all those programmers out there a chance to give us open format readers for the device, and they can
create new software whenever the formats change...and make it free as well.

Not quite. Data represents actual work done by a user. Not being able to get to your data means that work is lost. Hence, more and more governments demand open formats.

An application (should the source not be available) can be recreated by any team of capable programmers, OTOH.

For example, it's far more important that HTML is an open standard than that Firefox is an open-source application.

doctorow · 03-10-2006, 02:18 PM

Nevertheless, it shouldn't "hurt" Sony to release their Windows converter as open source and to thus give other programmers an idea how to write converter tools for other platforms.

We've all heard the rumors that Sony is going to release the specs for BBeB. However, I won't believe it before I see the specs with my own eyes.

Laurens · 03-10-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorow

Nevertheless, it shouldn't "hurt" Sony to release their Windows converter as open source and to thus give other programmers an idea how to write converter tools for other platforms.

Except if it gives insight into how their DRM works they shouldn't. I'm sure the publishers would not want that.

doctorow · 03-10-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurens

Except if it gives insight into how their DRM works they shouldn't. I'm sure the publishers would not want that.

That depends. If implemented correctly, they shouldn't have anything to fear even if the converter tool is published as open source. It's like releasing your app's keyfile algorithm that is based on a known public-private-key algorithm such as Elgamal or RSA - as long as no one has access to the private key, the algorithm alone is useless for cracking the underlying code/data.

Laurens · 03-10-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorow

That depends. If implemented correctly, they shouldn't have anything to fear even if the converter tool is published as open source. It's like releasing your app's keyfile algorithm that is based on a known public-private-key algorithm such as Elgamal or RSA - as long as no one has access to the private key, the algorithm alone is useless for cracking the underlying code/data.

Even so, the algorithm does give insight how the scheme works. A "revealing" bug in their software that leads to the format being cracked (the way DVD Jon managed to crack CSS because of a bug in a third-party video player) might make them liable for damages. The major stakeholders in their DRM are not Sony themselves, but the publishers.

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03-10-2006, 09:57 AM	#77
luag Zealot Posts: 144 Karma: 30 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Device: Onyx Boox 60	lol thanks for clearing that up

03-10-2006, 10:06 AM	#78
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	The question is...what are "Samples"?

03-10-2006, 10:10 AM	#79
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,175 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	I'd say samples refer to press-release copies for previews. Of course I could also be wrong

03-10-2006, 11:14 AM	#82
doctorow Guru Posts: 914 Karma: 3410461 Join Date: May 2004 Device: Kindle Touch	How about releasing all the specs (which they are rumored to do for the BBeB format) and to make the available tools open-source? Sure enough the Linux community would write their own tools then.

03-10-2006, 11:32 AM	#84
Laurens Jah Blessed Posts: 1,295 Karma: 1373 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Netherlands Device: iPod Touch	Open formats are more important than open-source, IMO.

03-10-2006, 12:47 PM	#85
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	not really...open formats are cool, but open source gives all those programmers out there a chance to give us open format readers for the device, and they can create new software whenever the formats change...and make it free as well. Sometimes I get the feeling that the best programmers out there are freelance/hobby programmers...all those guys that install linux on strange devices like Windows PDAs, PSPs and smartphones...of course it's more or less a waste of time, but think about what those guys can do and could do to create useful software for all of us...^^

03-10-2006, 02:18 PM	#87
doctorow Guru Posts: 914 Karma: 3410461 Join Date: May 2004 Device: Kindle Touch	Nevertheless, it shouldn't "hurt" Sony to release their Windows converter as open source and to thus give other programmers an idea how to write converter tools for other platforms. We've all heard the rumors that Sony is going to release the specs for BBeB. However, I won't believe it before I see the specs with my own eyes.

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