Apple... Potential Kindle Killer?

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Why is it that battery technology is not getting better to match that of the portable devices?

Not for the lack of trying, I'm pretty sure. If someone develops a battery that can power devices for a long period of time at reasonable cost, that someone's going to be pretty darn rich.

[NatCh]

I recall some articles a couple of years ago about some fairly promising battery advances, but they'd only advanced as far as the lab, at that point.

Here are a couple:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7677
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10169

[kamm]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

I agree. The substantive OLED information is about the iPhone, see for example Next iPhone to launch July 17 with OLED display and glowing Apple logo?. Note the "?" at the end, even for the iPhone an OLED screen might be too expensive. It is the kind of tech that Apple likes though - so this might be correct.

There now seems little doubt that Apple is buying a ton of (conventional) 10" touch screens. These could be for a netbook but a tablet seems more likely. Apple has introduced game-changing devices in the past, and so they might do the same with a tablet.

Define changing the game... While they could do wonders in software it's not a game changer to release a tablet per se - there are plenty of tablets out there already.

Note the might, since the game-changing part probably isn't the screen but the software. I'm not convinced that either a larger iPod Touch or a shrunk Mac will end up being a game changer, but Apple could surprise me. If they do introduce a tablet, then they will expect to sell at least a million of them. This is game changing in itself for tablets, and since everyone follows Apple's trends there would then be a raft of copycats.

Well, all those UMPC devices are available already, one better than than the other so clearly, if someone will be a follower it will be Apple, following the UMPC (tablet, netbook etc) market trends (even if gets on top of it), not the other way around, I think.

[kamm]

Originally Posted by NatCh

I recall some articles a couple of years ago about some fairly promising battery advances, but they'd only advanced as far as the lab, at that point.

Here are a couple:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7677
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10169

Yeah, it's getting ready but, as always, you need to reach the level when the scale, the economics get behind it so it becomes cheap commodity technology.

Also mfrs try to attack problems multiple ways simultaneously - witness all the hype about OLEDS, it's all about their power efficiency while retaining most of the characteristics we like in LCD (thin, lightweight, quick etc.)

[pking36330]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Not for the lack of trying, I'm pretty sure. If someone develops a battery that can power devices for a long period of time at reasonable cost, that someone's going to be pretty darn rich.

I think this may not be as far off as commonly thought. Nano-tube Lithium Ion batteries are being commercialized now and promise a pretty big leap in battery size vs endurance. Since so many applications for Li-Ion batteries are possible, I think rapid commercialization is the result. I've read several good science and business articles about this and it could be as big a leap as the one from Ni-Cad batteries to Li-Ion batteries.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by kamm

How can you claim it works when you cannot even copy/paste??? You can't send a picture to anyone (no MMS), if your battery dies you can't just get a new one' I cannot use wireless headsets for music, you are forced to use an iditoic software to move files off and on to it (iTunes)...

...if you look at these you will notice that none of these are "tech" issues, I deliberately left out my personal grievances (lack of multitasking, lack of open platform, Apple's heavy-handed censorship, AT&T's abusive pricing for a very crappy data service etc.)

Anyway, my point is that I think it's more than naive to believe Apple will bring a "game changer" to the market - ebook readers must be cheap, first and foremost, that's the only thing that could shake up this market (adoption en masse, that is.)

1. They are tech issues--copy and paste and the picture messaging aside (which I think is being added in the next update)--and you could still send them via e-mail as a work around. But those were stupid mistakes they made for sure.

But for the other things, I, and most don't have or care about wireless headphones. I, and most, think iTunes works great. I use it for my mp3s and I've never even owned an iPod. Non replaceable batteries kind of suck, but generally they last more than long enough for the average user to never care. By the time it's out of charges they'll have moved on to something else. Those are just not issues the average user gives a crap about.

You're still not thinking from the viewpoint of the mainstream user who knows nothing about tech and buys an iPod or iPhone and just uses the basic features, with basic headphones etc. That's where the money is, companies don't care about the techies with the grievances you have. They'd probably prefer that such folk not buy their devices--rather than buy them and jailbreak them etc. They make money off selling the average joe devices that are simple and easy to use.

2. Again, Apples device wouldn't be a dedicated reader, and yes the first couple generations would be too pricey to go mainstream most likely. It would be a multimedia tablet that people buy for that reason, and some people buy books on. It won't kill the kindle, but such devices are the key to expanding the ebook market--and not just from Apple, but whatever tablets competitors come up with.

Not enough people read enough to buy a dedicated reader for such devices to ever go mainstream like the eye pod. But ebooks can really take off if people start buying more devices (aside from PCs and laptops/netbooks) which can read them, as then even casual readers can start buying some ebooks.


Again, one just has to take of the techie glasses and think about what kind of devices will sell in the mainstream. An Apple tablet and similar devices from competitors) certainly could after kinks are worked out and prices come down, as many people (especially younger folk) would love a tablet device that they can watch movies on, listen to music, surf the net, use as a planner, take notes, read textbooks and journal articles and annotate them, read books etc. etc. We're probably 5 years or so away from having a tablet that does all that well and with a decent price tag, but when we do they'll sell like hotcakes.

Originally Posted by kamm

I disagree, I think they have a good shot at the high-end nebtook/tablet market but no shot at the ebook readers whatsoever.

Exactly. And that's wise as dedicated ebook readers are a dead end. They only appeal to avid readers, and that's an increasingly small niche in today's society--especially in younger generations. Just look at how old the Kindle owner age polls skew etc.

There aren't that many people who read enough to justify buying a dedicated eReader, compared to people who need something they can surf the net, watch videos, listen to music etc. So tack ereading function on to a tablet that does all that, and you can sell ebooks to people who would never buy a dedicated reader.

eReaders will stick around to sell to that niche, but Apple isn't a company that worries about selling niche items, they sell stuff that will appeal to the most people possible.

[tomsem]

The latest rumors about Apple Tablet.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/21...tablet-so-far/

[EowynCarter]

you are forced to use an iditoic software to move files off and on to it (iTunes)...

Yeah, my old sony did that too. Non ums mp3 player ? Never again !
I found my fit with the samsung p3. Does ums, playlist on the go. It even does a few extras, like radio, native divx / xvid video reading.

oh, i saw two ipod in demo at the fnac today. But both of them when unusable because they where crashing so much. Don't really know why, probably the disks suffering from overuse.

There aren't that many people who read enough to justify buying a dedicated eReader, compared to people who need something they can surf the net, watch videos, listen to music etc. So tack ereading function on to a tablet that does all that, and you can sell ebooks to people who would never buy a dedicated reader.

Probably. And selling more E-book means the publishers making more of these. -> good.

[TallMomof2]

The biggest problem with tablets, IMO, is alpha-numeric input. I have one and there is no way that I can touch type with the onscreen keyboard. Handwriting recognition is so-so and not a decent alternative.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Not enough people read enough to buy a dedicated reader for such devices to ever go mainstream like the eye pod.

Mass production is already driving the price down. The magic number, today, is $200. If, in some foreseeable future, some of these "looks-like-a-letter-sized-transparency-foil" SF prototypes go bellow $100 or even lower than that...

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

The biggest problem with tablets, IMO, is alpha-numeric input. I have one and there is no way that I can touch type with the onscreen keyboard. Handwriting recognition is so-so and not a decent alternative.

look at some of the other keyboard software around.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

There aren't that many people who read enough to justify buying a dedicated eReader ....

I have a lawyer friend who says that the vast majority (almost all) their paperwork now comes through e-mail as PDFs.

As you might guess, they print all that dreck off, use it for the course of whatever trial or meetings it pertains to, and then, as you might again guess, they toss it: they have the PDFs for filing purposes.

They don't just deal with them on laptops for the same reasons that most folks don't want to e-read anything else on a laptop: bulky, heavy, unsatisfactory battery life, the usual readability issues, etc.

I've discussed the idea of something that was about clipboard sized that would allow him to read those PDF files, maybe even make notes, was easier on the eyes and ran for a full day or three on a charge. His reaction was ... well, let's just call it "positive."

The same factors would make such a device similarly attractive to doctors, professors, anyone who still deals with lots of paper in our eco-friendly "paperless" society.

Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely pleased to have a smaller sized device for leisure reading, but the real market here is professional use. The thing that's held them back from hitting that market is most likely the lack of availability of large enough eInk panels to hit that clipboard-size target. The anticipated 9.7" panels are still a mite on small side, but with a margin auto-crop function it'd be close enough.

Would such a device be expensive? Absolutely, at first anyway, but consider that the largest factor that brought personal computer prices down from their original, astronomically high prices was the demand from the business world.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by NatCh

I have a lawyer friend who says that the vast majority (almost all) their paperwork now comes through e-mail as PDFs.

(snip) I've discussed the idea of something that was about clipboard sized that would allow him to read those PDF files, maybe even make notes, was easier on the eyes and ran for a full day or three on a charge. His reaction was ... well, let's just call it "positive."

The same factors would make such a device similarly attractive to doctors, professors, anyone who still deals with lots of paper in our eco-friendly "paperless" society.

Yeah, this is what I was hoping for with the Kindle DX. In my opinion it isn't quite there yet, but I'm still hoping the next iteration will make it.

There is the iLiad, of course. But that's ...quite a bit more expensive, and I get the impression it's hard to figure out how to get material onto it.

Originally Posted by NatCh

(snip) the real market here is professional use. The thing that's held them back from hitting that market is most likely the lack of availability of large enough eInk panels to hit that clipboard-size target. The anticipated 9.7" panels are still a mite on small side, but with a margin auto-crop function it'd be close enough.

Would such a device be expensive? Absolutely, at first anyway, but consider that the largest factor that brought personal computer prices down from their original, astronomically high prices was the demand from the business world.

Good points. And surely with the Kindle having gotten as close as it has, if Amazon doesn't do it, someone else will.

I was interested in something upthread that people were saying about OLED screens--being LCD but not backlit, something like that? Is that the screen the (if I remember right) Jetbook uses? I have a hard time using backlit screens for longer than a few hours, so if an Apple (or any other) tablet was going to be intended for long-form reading, I would want the option of turning off the backlight.

And, on another tack, in my opinion, if any company succeeded in making tablets as common as iPods, for example, that would be a game changer right there. Not because tablets didn't exist before, but because $company made them mainstream.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

I was interested in something upthread that people were saying about OLED screens--being LCD but not backlit, something like that? Is that the screen the (if I remember right) Jetbook uses?

The jetBook uses a non-backlit greyscale LCD display. An OLED display does not need a backlight because it is light-emitting, and these are typically full color. With OLED it might be best to read with a black background, since then only the letters will be lit.

[yvanleterrible]

There is one market that does not have a perfectly adapted portable device.
The magazine...