Why are eink screens so gray?

[etherspin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You're right - I used to have an iRex iLiad myself, and it certainly had poorer contrast than the CyBook or Sony does. Sorry - I thought that we were only discussing 6" devices, which do all use the same screen. The iRex screen is made separately (although also by PVI) and I share your view that it does have a somewhat darker background.

AHH! I thought i was going insane , the irex ones i saw were 8 - 10 inch , perhaps in light of the e-ink info the larger the screen the thicker the antiglare/UV coating .
hopefully this will improve and looks like it is, from the low res video of that plastic logic reader it seems quite stark

[Sonist]

I just placed my iLiad BE next to the K2, and the iLiad BE appears noticeably more readable.

The background is of the same shade, but the text on the iLiad is definitely darker, thus making it easier to read.

My experience might be different, since it's a new iLiad, with the Vizplex screen. But, side-by side, the iLiad BE definitely has better contrast than the K2 (the iLiad BE is as good as the PRS-505.)

I really hope the Kindle 2 gets darker text in the next software update.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Awwwwwww.

I met in a hotel lobby in Boise and showed someone my and Syd's kindles. It took a little while, but it was right before Christmas, and seemed like a nice thing to do. He brought his father, whom he had bought a kindle for for Christmas (hope he got a kindle2).

That is a nice thing to do for someone.

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by Sonist

I just placed my iLiad BE next to the K2, and the iLiad BE appears noticeably more readable.

The background is of the same shade, but the text on the iLiad is definitely darker, thus making it easier to read.

My experience might be different, since it's a new iLiad, with the Vizplex screen. But, side-by side, the iLiad BE definitely has better contrast than the K2 (the iLiad BE is as good as the PRS-505.)

I really hope the Kindle 2 gets darker text in the next software update.

I am really finding it interesting that the font itself can have such a huge impact. Were both devices using the same font? Do you have any idea why it is that way? I know this can all be subjective but at the same time I've read more people mention that some fonts seem to offer more contrast.

I am thinking it might be because some fonts are created to draw more of the black beads to the surface. Maybe because that particular font is a heavier weight? Or maybe is it something firmware related as they all are said to use the same displays since only one company is producing displays commercially right now?

It is possible that the device makers are also building their own font set since licensing fonts can be very expensive long term. I say that because we recently watched the movie documentary Helvetica. I had never even considered the importance of font design nor had I appreciated the complexity of licensing the use of a font in commercial works. I do highly recommend that move to anyone interested in reading, language or how communication evolves. I thought I would have been bored by the movie but was actually completely into it after five minutes.

But if the a font does not look the same on two different brand devices and it is indeed the same font, then it seems to me, there is something in the hardware or firmware causing the this variation. I would be interested to see someone do a sample of say 100 of each brand and model to see if there are variations between like devices let alone brands.

[MobileTechReview]

The Kindle 2 uses Linotype Caecilia according to Amazon's PR folks (from the looks of the Kindle 2, I'd guess the Light variant and not the Roman).

The Sony Readers use Bitstream Dutch Roman.

No idea about the iRex models.

Fonts do make a big difference... weight, height. I flashed my 505 to get a slightly taller and heavier font and it's super-easy to read compared to Dutch. Though the Kindle 2's font is quite thin and light, I don't have any trouble with it for some reason. Maybe character height and line spacing help there.

I only wish I could flash the PRS-700 with a new base text font as I did with the 505, because I think that would greatly improve readability.

[DixieGal]

I was fixing up some RTF's last night, turning them into PDF's to read on my Sony. (I'm in the minority who prefers PDF's.) I gave it 0.5 margins, Ariel font, size 22 pts, as usual. Then, just for kicks, I changed the line spacing from 1 to 1.15 (canned spacer on Win 07).

It made a HUGE difference! Just that tiny bit of extra space between lines, with the sans serif font, large print, and suddenly I could read it in portrait mode on my 505. I think by allowing more of the grayish background between lines, it showed up as being a darker contrast.

The 505 is much more pleasant to hold and read in portrait format.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by MobileTechReview

The Kindle 2 uses Linotype Caecilia according to Amazon's PR folks (from the looks of the Kindle 2, I'd guess the Light variant and not the Roman).

The Sony Readers use Bitstream Dutch Roman.

No idea about the iRex models.

Fonts do make a big difference... weight, height. I flashed my 505 to get a slightly taller and heavier font and it's super-easy to read compared to Dutch. Though the Kindle 2's font is quite thin and light, I don't have any trouble with it for some reason. Maybe character height and line spacing help there.

I only wish I could flash the PRS-700 with a new base text font and I did with the 505, because I think that would greatly improve readability.

Fonts do make a difference to the reading experience. One of the advantages of the Cybook Gen3, amongst others, is the facility to add fonts of ones' choice - provided they are TrueType...

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

I am really finding it interesting that the font itself can have such a huge impact. Were both devices using the same font? Do you have any idea why it is that way?....

Font do have HUGE impact on how text looks both on paper and on screen. People notice the difference, even if they are not aware of the reason why things look different.

The fonts were different. But I am not sure that's the reason why the iLiad appears more contrasty. It's noticeably easier to read, even though the size of the font size on the iLiad is set slightly smaller, than on the K2. Changing the size on the K2 doesn't make much difference to the contrast, IMO.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Fonts do make a difference to the reading experience. One of the advantages of the Cybook Gen3, amongst others, is the facility to add fonts of ones' choice

Absolutely one of the best things about the Cybook (plus more font size options than the Kindle, and the "embolden" option).

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

I was fixing up some RTF's last night, turning them into PDF's to read on my Sony. (I'm in the minority who prefers PDF's.) I gave it 0.5 margins, Ariel font, size 22 pts, as usual. Then, just for kicks, I changed the line spacing from 1 to 1.15 (canned spacer on Win 07).

It made a HUGE difference! Just that tiny bit of extra space between lines, with the sans serif font, large print, and suddenly I could read it in portrait mode on my 505. I think by allowing more of the grayish background between lines, it showed up as being a darker contrast.

The 505 is much more pleasant to hold and read in portrait format.

Originally Posted by bwaldron

Absolutely one of the best things about the Cybook (plus more font size options than the Kindle, and the "embolden" option).

Originally Posted by Sonist

Font do have HUGE impact on how text looks both on paper and on screen. People notice the difference, even if they are not aware of the reason why things look different.

The fonts were different. But I am not sure that's the reason why the iLiad appears more contrasty. It's noticeably easier to read, even though the size of the font size on the iLiad is set slightly smaller, than on the K2. Changing the size on the K2 doesn't make much difference to the contrast, IMO.

I see that and you know, while I fully am aware what a typeface can do for readability, I somehow assumed that eink displays really were the same across the board.

The tip about line spacing, I get it and it makes a lot of sense after considering looking at the eink displays I have used that on pages with less content and more space between what content there is, they do seem more readable.

I really appreciate the discussion in this thread. I have a better grasp of not only why the displays are so gray, but also what might help make a given display easier to read for myself. It is certainly worth a shot. I am still going to wait to see what shakes out in the fall or winter of this year before locking myself into a given device, but maybe I will end up buying one less new lens this year and a nice reader to complement my PDA's.

Like I wrote, I never made the leap from CRT or LCD displays and how some fonts are better for me there to the fonts on the eink readers. So now I have better ammo when evaluating a device. I still do not like the gray but maybe I can work with it. Still I am not 100% sold the technology is actually right for me at this point in time.

great discussion!!

sonist, do you get the impression the reason the K2 does not show imporvement is either from the line spacing or maybe it is how the device manipulates the charge to attract or repel the beads?