Content Folders! WE NEED FOLDERS!

[stymiest]

Just to add my voice to the chorus, I too would like to have the ability to add and use folders. I think it would be a very simple modification from the technological aspect especially since the Kindle is run on Linux which also has robust foldering capabilities. Amazon simply has to add an interface to access them. Seems like a quick win to me.

Anyone who is against the folder need not use them, no harm no foul, but I think we can all agree that we'd rather have the choice.

[Sinthor]

I haven't owned a Kindle before now and don't know if anyone's heard about this and the Kindle2. With the first Kindle, were any Firmware updates ever made available?

The reason I ask is that obviously a good portion of the Kindle 2's 2GB of memory is taken up by the "OS" of the device. If firmware updates are offered, it would be simple matter for them to add folder functionality, not to mention many other features via an update... Any info?

[BurBunny]

Originally Posted by Sinthor

I haven't owned a Kindle before now and don't know if anyone's heard about this and the Kindle2. With the first Kindle, were any Firmware updates ever made available?

The reason I ask is that obviously a good portion of the Kindle 2's 2GB of memory is taken up by the "OS" of the device. If firmware updates are offered, it would be simple matter for them to add folder functionality, not to mention many other features via an update... Any info?

Yes, the Kindles do have the ability to receive firmware updates, either manually applied or through whispernet. There was a K1 update just prior to the release of the K2 which allowed for whispersync functionality. There's even a rumored K2 firmware update in the works.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

I think Amazon (or Sony for that matter) won't be doing any kind of folders unless they can dumb down their use to the lowest common denominator.

Coming from over a year of using a 505 it would be nice to have 'collections' or something similar but it's certainly not a deal breaker.

Collections are folders. I have a 505 and I can certainly see why K2 owners would want folders.

I use calibre to organize my 505. calibre lets me put tags - multiple tags, even - on all my files, so that when they show up on the 505, they are sorted by tag in the Collections menu. In other words, I have a separate Collection item for each tag, containing all the files with that particular tag.

I am finding that I tend to read articles that I download from the internet (Mac > Firefox > print to pdf > run through calibre to tag > move to 505 with calibre button) more than books. So I can sort the articles by magazine, author, type - whatever I want.

For instance, I ran across an archive of articles by Christopher Hitchens, one of my favorite writers, despite our having opposing political views, and downloaded a dozen tagged "Hitchens," so I can read them like I eat the chocolates from a box - one a day (okay, one every ten minutes...the chocolates, that is...)

Collections is one of the two main reasons I've stuck with the 505, the other being that the 505 has a better form factor.

Now, I have my books sorted by some rather simple categories, but even those are quite helpful in navigating the device. Why Amazon doesn't grasp the usefulness of folders is beyond me. I wonder if they really understand the mentality of so many people who read - the need to categorize, organize, count, & sometimes just look at the books they've read.

I'm assuming that the K2 doesn't let the user tag files, or have a Collections type menu item.

[Thomas Ryan]

Wow - I'm relatively new to this topic. I can't solve it, but here is what I see.

1) Kindle is missing the capability for users to organize their content.
2) Some people care, others don't. The more content you have the more likely you are to care.
3) Any new organizing feature has to be transparent (not bothersome) to those so-called Least Common Denominator users who like things simple and "flat".
4) The debate about Folders vs. Collections vs. Tags is challenging. Here is how I think about it
5) taxonomy:
a) folders - a destination for content, like on Windows and MacOs. Analogy - physical world file drawer and folders. Perhaps they nest to some level, perhaps the hierarchy is only two levels deep
b) Tags - an annotation of some sort that someone can add to a piece of content. Analogy - I can put sticky notes on the covers of my books. The label on the note is the "tag content", or simply the "tag".
c) Collection - a single collection is the group of all the books with the same tag, for some tag (tag content).
d) Grouping - either collection or a folder, depending on context.
6) Collections are not the same as folders. A piece of content cannot be in more than one folder. A piece of content can be in more than one collection (logically, not physically, don't need to make a new copy on a computer;physical world - it's optional).
(-- aside -- Aliases, on Windows, attempt to circumvent the folder limitation, and just confuse everything)
7) Amazon supports a notion of folders for newspapers (they aggregate back- issues into one "place" on Home). "Archive" on Kindle 2 is also like a folder. "View by" in home on Kindle 1, is almost like a "collection" scheme, but not quite.
8) Amazon did not extended this folder feature, nor a general concept of tagging/collections, to end-users in Kindle 1.
9) Some customers wish they would, some don't care. Some say "don't make it more complicated" (imply concern that the feature will be confusing to them, i.e. not "transparent")
10) Amazon did not extend this folder feature, nor a general concept of tagging/collections, to end-users in Kindle 2
11) Some customers wish they would, some don't care. Some say "don't make it more complicated"
12) go to 7; rinse and repeat
--catch exceptions. Some customers have figured out how to hack content and create a folder scheme for their Kindles. It might not work from Kindle 1 to 2 to 3.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Collections are folders. I have a 505 and I can certainly see why K2 owners would want folders.

Yes an no. Collections are only 1 level organization system. Not quite the same as folders. But, better than nothing. Tags are like folders but better because they don't tie you to a specific taxonomy.

BOb

[tompe]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Yes an no. Collections are only 1 level organization system. Not quite the same as folders. But, better than nothing. Tags are like folders but better because they don't tie you to a specific taxonomy.

Yes they do if you do not have priority between the tags. If I want to have main categories and then different possible sub-categories for each main category then this is impossible to represent with ordinary tags but trivial to represent using folders.

[stevenmoy]

Just wondering: "If you put a dollar amount on the desire of folder/collection/tag feature, how much would you pay?"

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ryan

Wow - I'm relatively new to this topic. I can't solve it, but here is what I see.

1) Kindle is missing the capability for users to organize their content.
All seem to agree.

Except me because I'm pedantic and persnickety. You can organize content in very limited ways. You can sort by author, by title and by most-recent-first.

4) The debate about Folders vs. Collections vs. Tags is a cyclical mess probably because of semantic difficulties due to imprecise definitions of these words.

I think they're fairly well defined. You seem to have a nice grasp on them. I think the main debate is between people who want the ease of use of a folder versus the flexibility of a tag. If you're managing your files via your computer and a USB connection, you can just drag files into the folders and there you go. However, that's limiting since it can only be in one folder. You could copy it, I suppose, but keeping your bookmarks, etc., straight would be messy. Tags let you put a document in multiple categories. I could tag something as being both a "Mystery" and "Unread" for instance. However this would require some sort of tagging UI which would likely not set a land speed record since e-ink is a bit pokey.

11) Some customers wish they would, some don't care. Some say "leave it alone"

I don't think anyone's arguing against including one of these organizational system. They may not care and not use it if it were there, but I don't think anyone's really in the content anarchy camp.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by stevenmoy

Just wondering: "If you put a dollar amount on the desire of folder/collection/tag feature, how much would you pay?"

zero, nada, zilch.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes they do if you do not have priority between the tags. If I want to have main categories and then different possible sub-categories for each main category then this is impossible to represent with ordinary tags but trivial to represent using folders.

They don't necessarily have to have priorities. If you can search "tag AND tag" then you will get anything with both tags. Whereas lets say I have a main category called Mystery and another one called SciFi. I want to sort within them on the basis of Read and Unread. Now lets say I want to get all my Unread books. They're in two folders. If it were tagged, I could search on the tag Unread or I could search on Mystery AND Unread or SciFi and Unread if I wanted to be more specific.

[kkun]

I can see how collections/categories/folders would be nice to have. As my library right now is extremely small it hasn't become an issue yet. But Amazon does advertise that the K2 holds like 1500 books and having no way to organize that is seems like trouble just begging to bite you in the rear. Content management and organization is good IMO.

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by stevenmoy

Just wondering: "If you put a dollar amount on the desire of folder/collection/tag feature, how much would you pay?"

If each Kindle owner were willing to chip in $1 additional, I bet they could find a programmer to add folders. If he got the $$ involved, that is.

I agree, it should have COME with folders. But I'd be willing to buy a 1$ software update that added folderization capabilities. Now, to convince Amazon about this.....

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

If each Kindle owner were willing to chip in $1 additional, I bet they could find a programmer to add folders. If he got the $$ involved, that is.

I agree, it should have COME with folders. But I'd be willing to buy a 1$ software update that added folderization capabilities. Now, to convince Amazon about this.....

I want folders/tags, but not a penny more from me.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Alisa

They don't necessarily have to have priorities. If you can search "tag AND tag" then you will get anything with both tags. Whereas lets say I have a main category called Mystery and another one called SciFi. I want to sort within them on the basis of Read and Unread. Now lets say I want to get all my Unread books. They're in two folders. If it were tagged, I could search on the tag Unread or I could search on Mystery AND Unread or SciFi and Unread if I wanted to be more specific.

But then you have to remember the sub tag names for each category and there is nothing that enforces the structur so if you happens to misspell a tag you can never know the tag should not be allowed.

Science fiction books and crime books have very different sub-categories. I might want to have:

science fiction:
- space opera
- mystery
- humour

mystery
- cosy
- police procedural

And I do not want to allow adding the tag space opera to a top level mystery book.